Allotments 4 All

Just for the record, and to stop bl**dy silly remarks / comments by the uninformed,

The underlying principles of the organic movement are:

•   To produce healthy, nutritious food for humans and animals.
•   To maintain and increase the soil and its fertility.
•   To maintain and increase biodiversity.
•   To minimize the input of man-made chemicals, including fertilizers, herbicides and poison.
•   To avoid polluting the environment.

It's not difficult, or complicated!!  ;)

What initiated that tonybloke? (I do organic gardening so no problem with the message, but you feel provoked by something....?!

organic seed thread, pesticide use, 'a little bit of growmore' etc etc.

Tony can you please explain more as my OHs BiL has suggested we use the stuff & I don't want to. I read somewhere it's not organic & that's enough for me but I would like to let OH know why.
Thanks,
Janet

If you are growing organically then you never use chemical fertilisers, growmore is most definitely a chemical fertiliser.

Growmore was introduced in the Dig for victory campaign during WWII it was heavily plugged by the ministry of agriculture as can be seen in this 1945 MoA garden guide.


Here is a transcript in case you can't read the scanned copy.

QuoteAbout 'Artificials'
Now a word about "artificials"––or, what is a better term, "mineral fertilizers". The use of the word "artificials" makes some people thank that "artificials" are not as good as "organics". Both supply exactly the same kind of plant foods in different quantities. The "organics" generally rot down slowly and so supply steady though small amounts of plant foods during the whole of the plant's growing period.
The well-known Sulphate of Ammonia, which comes from gas works and coke ovens, is a good source of nitrogen. Superphosphate, made from rock, is rich in phosphate;   basic slag, which we get from iron works, also contains phosphate. Potash is dug out of mines in France and Germany.   
A SOUND GOVERNMENT FERTILIZER

To meet the needs of gardeners, the Government arranged for the supply of a good standard fertilizer at a reasonable price. It is called "National Growmore Fertilizer" and contains the three important plant foods––the analysis being 7 per cent. N. (nitrogen), 7 per cent. P2O5 (phosphate) and 7 per cent. K2O (potash).

On most soils, 42 lb. of National Growmore Fertilizer should be enough for a 10-rod plot (300 square yards). A few days before sowing or planting, scatter 1 lb. evenly over every 10 sq. yards and rake in. To give this general dressing to a 10-rod allotment will take 30 lb. This will leave 12 lb. for giving an extra dressing to potatoes, winter green crops and spring cabbages.

4-1/2 lb. should be reserved for potatoes and should be applied at planting time. 5-1/2 lb. should be kept for applying during August to the autumn and winter green crops when they are making active growth. The remaining 2 lb. should be used during March as a top dressing for spring cabbage.
You will be able to get National Growmore Fertilizer from most sundries merchants. Allotment societies and similar bodies, which have hitherto bought their fertilizers in bulk, are able to buy National Growmore Fertilizer in bulk at reduced prices.
On some allotments or in some gardens it may be necessary to give an additional top dressing of a nitrogenous fertilizer (such as Sulphate of Ammonia) to any growing crops, applying it at the rate of about 1 lb. per 10 square yards.

A good book about how the chemical fertilizers came about & why the farmers used them is called We Want Real Food. I found it a brilliant read. Can't remember who wrote it as it's out on loan.
Janet

Only thing that goes on my plot is horse sh@t. This is my third year now. When we first got the plot we had it ploughed, then as time has gone on we dig and hand pick the weeds out. Have never used any plant feed, weedkiller or fertilizer and hope i never will :)

The biggest joke of all comes from the folk that want to blitz their new plot with roundup then go organic.

You either have respect or you don't. There is no middle ground.

I think A4A stands for everything to do with growing your own produce, weather it be organic, or the use of fertilizers and pesticides. For me, the reason i took on an allotment, was to feed my family and myself organically. Fruit and vegetables i grow, have been grown on my plot using only horse manure as feed for my soil. I don't begrudge anyone the use of pesticides, fertilizers or weedkillers, if this is the path they choose, each to their own. I just wish each and every one a good growing season.

Here in Denmark we rely mainly on ground water for domestic water supplies. The farmers have made a good job of polluting it though, and my water supply is specially treated to reduce pesticide content.

It is not just drinking water that is a problem. I garden 100% organically, and I like to supplement my home-made seaweed extract with nettle extract on plants with high nitrogen requirements. The problem is finding nettles, because the farmers have sprayed them.

Speaking to a farmer the other week, I asked if he knew where I could find some nettles (I don't take those growing in my own garden!), and he said he has some in his orchard, and they are so persistent that 4 years of spraying with round up hadn't killed them yet, so would I like to have them?

I said "no thanks" and he looked very puzzled!

QuoteThe biggest joke of all comes from the folk that want to blitz their new plot with roundup then go organic.

You either have respect or you don't. There is no middle ground.

Thanks to the carelessness of some tenants and the unwillingness of most councils to help clear plots, many people feel they dont have a choice. If you take on a plot full of broken glass and rubble, you wont have much time to deal with a bad weed infestation organically.

And if you get evicted because you havent cleared it, then the next person inherits an even bigger problem.. and so on.

I have been growing veg organically in my garden for 38 years, but still do not have satisfactory solutions to slugs and bindweed.    Problem has been that people near started using slug pellets and the hedgehogs have been dieing. 

I have less problem with others using fertilizers than poison sprays drifting about the place.  Others can make there own choices, I object if others choose for me, and the inorganics blow in.

I am worried about genetic engineering, since the bees can carry it for miles.

Quote from: Digeroo on April 26, 2009, 08:02:43
I have been growing veg organically in my garden for 38 years, but still do not have satisfactory solutions to slugs and bindweed.    Problem has been that people near started using slug pellets and the hedgehogs have been dying. 

I don't think you are alone in not having a solution to slugs and bindweed Digeroo! Bindweed I just keep digging out....and out.....and out! ;D

Slugs get nematode treatment (bit only once a year, it is expensive and does seem to have a cumulative effect), slug pub happy drunk deaths, plastic bottle cloches around courgettes, sweetcorn & lettuces until they are established, and the Ferramol based pellets if there is some really determined creatures!

But with the Ferramol based pellets now available that do not affect wildlife, there is no excuse for people using the ordinary ones. Problem is they look very similar, so it is difficult to tell which is which!

Frankly I think it is each to their own and no one should try and shove any principle down anyone else's throat.

We all have our different reasons for either having an allotment or growing our own in our garden and for some it is organic food, others health benefits of working a plot and others for relaxation.  For me it is a bit of all of the above.  I work full time, have an 8 year old and have to try and squeeze my lovely lottie into the little bit of time left.  I have had it for 5 years and each year my enthusiasm has waned with the constant battle with perennial weeds and spending literally all my time there weeding areas that aren't even growing food.  This year I decided to bite the bullet and take up all the beds and start from scratch.  The first thing being using Roundup on the site to clear it completely.  Now I have put down membrane, built new beds and will hopefully not be using any more chemicals.  However I accept that for some people having a crop to harvest at the end of the season is more important than resorting to using minimal amounts of 'artificials' to save the plants.

We are trying to grow organically and thats our choice. As others have discused its up to you what you do and I am not going to tell you what you should or shouldn't do.

I think the problem is that since the introduction of manmade chemicals, which have provided results over our recent history, the propaganda for the use has been really stong and most of us have become too accepting of the use of these chemicals (in my opinion). I think there are some out there that feel really strong about this issue and  I feel all they are trying to do is re-address the balance to make up for the years of inbalance.

Its up to you what you do, I think we just need to take a wholistic approach and be mindful of the fact that we are just caretakers of the land and that we leave it in a good condition for future growers.  Just make an informed decision and healthy discusions like this help us all make those!

It really is simple!

I haven't got time to get into this issue in a deep way at the moment but I do think that people who are organic have a right to try and persuade others to be that way (and because of free speech vice versa)  After all, people who use chemicals are polluting everybody's environment, not just their own.

I try to garden as organically as I can, but the ground elder coming through my hedges is so bad I've had to resort to glyphosate as the only effective way to handle it. I hate using the stuff, but I'd never get the plot sorted otherwise!