If others can rant -

[tim]

- like about dyes, so may I, about "NINE BRITISH milk farms A DAY" going out of business because the "big 4s"  are buying EU unmonitered low welfare, high additive milk BECAUSE OF PUBLIC DEMAND. ??

No way - it's s*d the British producer if we can undercut our competitors!!

What with that, & the fact that the Union Jack can now mean "produced under very non-U & very unwholesome standards in the EU" makes me wonder who you can trust & what quality of life will be left for our progeny.

[tim]

[sandersj89]

EEC rules - mutter, mutter......

Supermarkets - MUTTER, MUTTER......

British Consumers not know or caring what they are buying on the whole - MUTTER MUTTER MUTTER

:( :( :( :( :(

Jerry

[john_miller]

   Over here the wholesale price of milk for the country is set on an open trading floor that operates in Milwaukee, Wisconsin (the M-W price). I’m not sure why Milwaukee was chosen as being representative of the whole country but it is almost equidistant between the coasts and Wisconsin used to be a major milk producing state. This price is supposed to cover the costs of production, allow a reasonable rate of return on investment and allow the farmers to make a reasonable living.
  When a country covers a continent the inevitable result is that using this system results in huge disparities in net income between those areas where it is cheap to produce crops compared to those where it is more expensive. Here in the North East, where land is seen as being in short supply, farmers have to pay taxes while in the West, where available land far exceeds the needs of the population, farmers are subsidized by the federal government to use the land (including, of course, the indirect subsidy of cheap roads and fuel). Between this and the lower costs of production in the South (Florida is now the third biggest milk producing state) due to the climate the numbers of N. E. farmers, as in the U.K., has declined precipitously in the past few decades.
    With the M-W price exceeding that needed to cover the cost of production in the West there was also a massive increase in production that lead to surpluses. In an attempt to reduce the surplus about 20 years ago the federal government introduced a programme, called the Whole Herd Buy-out, in which farmers voluntarily sold their entire herd to the government and contracted to drop out of farming. The unintended consequence was that farmers who stayed in business simply bought these spare cattle so production levels were not really affected (the cattle couldn’t be sold for slaughter as that would have flooded the beef market, causing more problems).
   Much to the disgust of the rest of the country local federal legislators and others, both Republican and Democrat, then created a programme called the North-east Dairy Compact which all six New England states and the states of New York and Pennsylvania take part in. All milk sold by in these states that exceeds the volume produced by these states has a surcharge placed on it. This surcharge is collected from processor/importer dairy’s that distribute here. This money is then distributed to individual farmers by the states. This has resulted in higher retail milk prices, there was some grumbling initially about that, but is now accepted. What I see now,looking at local dairy farmers, is one who has just bought two new tractors, another who is replacing a big, dilapidated barn and the even the widespread use of winter rye as a cover crop on the corn fields which I never used too see. My point? Things can be changed, especially considering this has taken place in a culture dedicated to the cult of the individual.

[Jesse]

EEC rules - mutter, mutter......

Supermarkets - MUTTER, MUTTER......

British Consumers not know or caring what they are buying on the whole - MUTTER MUTTER MUTTER

:( :( :( :( :(

Jerry

Jerry, not all of us! I buy as much as possible from my local farm shop where a large portion of the produce is from local suppliers (many of which are Sussex based). My milk comes from a sussex dairy. If the produce is not labled I ask where it comes from and usually they know, if they don't they find out from the manager and let me know next time I'm there shopping. It's more expensive for most things I buy but then it's worth paying a little extra knowing that I'm not handing that money over to one of the big retailers and foreign suppliers. I can also afford to pay a little extra because I save by producing and selling (a few) of my own eggs, veg and fruit in summer and we eat less meat but better quality and local meat. What they can't source locally (bananas, avocados etc.) they buy in but at least to money is going to a local farm shop than a big retailer - as you can gather I don't like the big retailers!

I also think this organic thing is a problem. Lots of my friends will only buy organic veg and fruit even although it's been transported half way around the world to get here producing enormous amounts of pollution in the process. Maybe someone can answer this question, does organic also automatically mean free range? I'd rather buy meat that was free range and not organic than "factory" reared but eating organic food.

[john_miller]

It is a specified precept of certified organic that it is free range.

[Jesse]

That's good to know, there's so much ambiguity around food labelling it's difficult to tell what's good and what's not.

[TULIP-23]

Tim :)

Dont you believe it [ Unmonitored Milk] You must be joking.

Do you know how stringent the Rules and Controls are here alone in the Netherlands. 8)

EEC Regulations :
For Cattle:  Cows..Pigs..Sheeps.. Deer.. Ostrich..Horses.. Poultry   ???

Then: Food Produce: Eggs Butter Cheese Cream Milk ???

All those Veggies and Apples Tomatoes Bulbs and Cut Flowers........plus a thousand and one things. ???

Everyone has the FREEDOM of Choice were to Shop and What to buy in whatever Country we live in. ;)

[tim]

NOTHING personal, Tulip - but we all know that the EU welfare standards are so low that our caring growers are steadily being priced out of business after 100s of years, because 'we want the cheapest food that can be produced whatever the pain'??

And who says this? We all know. The big 4. So sad. And for what? Not our survival - just SHAREHOLDERS' MONEY?

[NattyEm]

I often get my milk from a local diary, its sold in the little post office where my MIL lives and if I really can't get it from there I buy organic.  Its always hard choosing local or organic.  I get most of our eggs from local producers. We have our veg delivered from riverford, although there is a nearer farm with a box scheme it doesn't run all year round, and I think riverford is fantastic value for money (on the comedy value of the newsletter alone some weeks!!)  We don't eat meat often, and when we do it's from the farmers market.  We are also lucky to have a great trout farm fairly close by with the yummiest watercress too!

It is very sad what has been done to our attitudes to food, and how ignorant some people are, especially when it comes to supermarkets.  They think they are doing the best for them and their families by simply buying organic from the shelves of ASDA.  Its unfortunate that because of the takeover of the 4 giants it is actually quite difficult to survive without them.  It was my new-years resolution to give up ASDA, but with two toddlers I've found it really difficult and given up :/  I must do something about it.


Of course it doesn't help when food labling is so ambiguous and standards vary accross the world.

Another contentious areas is that in the UK all organic animals must be born on the farm, whilst elsewhere animals can be from conventional origin and merely spend the final part of their lives on an organic farm. In the UK free range the requirements on free range poultry are interpreted more strictly than in most other EU countries.
from http://www.organic-consultancy.com/articles/OGLIFE/1001.shtml

[wardy]

You can do a bit locally by pressuring your local supermarket.  I kept going into my local Somerfield and was totally p*****d off that the only tomatoes, bacon, you name it I could buy were Dutch!  I resent this as most of the Dutch produce is tasteless be it bacon or tomatoes (no offence I'm sure).  I want to buy British bacon and tomatoes so I got in touch with head office at Somerfield and told them.  I kept banging on about it and now on the bacon counter there are British flags all over it.  I need to buy and serve British bacon at my B & B and try and source very locally produced stuff but the supermarkets need to gear up to this fact and take the blinkers off about the centralised way of doing things.  Rant over.  I am quite myself again  ;D

Wardy

[tim]

Great going!! I'll remuster my energy.

But bear in mind my first point about the use of the flag?? Designed to deceive.

It's not so much the flavour of imported food - it's animal welfare that I'm hot about - &, through the avoidance of that, in the name of always cheaper meat, 'because the public demand it', the loss of our own, small ethical producers.

[TULIP-23]

Tim ;)

I think there's a lot to do with the EEC subs.
In respect of all Growers Respective of what Land or Country. Fruit..Veg...or Food Stuffs
I will agree its certainly not a Level Playing field Tim!!!! ::)

[wardy]

I'm hot on animal welfare as well Tim and I took this up with Somerfield as I was concerned that they only had Dutch bacon on sale on their chilled meat counter and that it was probably produced from crated pigs.  Anyway they assured me it wasn't and all their meat had to be reared humanely.  I'm not convinced though so I kept pushing and got them to get British in.  I'm still not sure though that they aren't just sticking British flags on any bacon.  That would be illegal though wouldn't it? 

[NattyEm]

Wardy don't quote me on this, but its to do with how much time the animal has been in the country and where it's packaged.  I'm sure I read if it's packaged here you can call it british!!

If in any doubt buy from a local farmer.

www.themeatrix.com

[TULIP-23]

Wardy ;D

Nothing wrong with Dutch Bacon  I can tell you!! ;)

[tim]

Except  from the animals' point of view??
And Wardy - no, it is NOT illegal - that's my point.

[TULIP-23]

Not really Tim!!!!!!!!!  ;)

[Derek]

Hi

One of the main reasons we are having problems (and not just with food) is the buying power of the large conglomerate companies.

They tend to dictate what price they are prepared to pay to the supplier who then has a choice....do I supply at that price (this often means cutting production/manufacturing costs) or loose the business to someone who will meet the price thereby putting your own workforce at risk of unemployment.

The result is a reduction in quality

Derek

[wardy]

Bought some free range bacon from my local deli.  £7.69 for 8 slices!  Delicious, huge slices but very expensive as I was buying from the middle man.  There is a pig farm near here and I think I'll give him a call as I use lots of bacon at my gaff.  The farm has a beautiful garden and the pigs are kept in the fields surrounding it.  One field, nearest the garden, is their wallow, then they have a grassy field with lots of shelters in it and then they have a massive field on a slope with trees and all sorts of woodland where they rootle and tootle.  They are lovely spotted sorts and look very happy.  They are very curious and come and say hello and it's unbearable to know that not all pigs are cared for in this way.  I understand that intensive pig rearing crates are illegal in the UK

[TULIP-23]

Wardy :)

Having worked with them [Pigs] I mean.

Installation of Feeding Systems. I lasted Six Months at the Job .

Could.nt stand the Smell...the Heat... the Constant Pellet Feeding.

NEVER going out side from the Day they  are Born, smelling the Fresh Air or eating the Grass...................thats
INTENTSIVE FARMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ???