Weed control - FABRIC v. BLACK PLASTIC

[Squash64]

I want to cover the beds which I've recently dug and weeded.  Would you recommend weed control fabric, or black plastic? 
Or something else?

[Squash64]

[Psi (Pronounced 'Si'!)]

fabric is better than plastic as it is porous.

Cardboard? - cheaper?

[Tee Gee]

I prefer nothing at all, I like the weather to get into the soil during the winter months.

Why keep all the pests & diseases warm for the winter they will only cause you trouble when you plant out!

A good hoe is all you need!

My way; http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Slide%20Shows/Soil%20preparation%20ss/soil%20preparation%20ss.html

[Slug_killer]

My point exactly (but you beat me too it (just))

Why ?


Nothing will grow from now until March, not even bindweed (?)

Why not leave the soil to the winter elements and then cover in March, if desired. That way, the things that run or wriggle will die off and you'll have less P&D next year.

[manicscousers]

we cover with cardboard then weed control, the beds are uncovered 2 weeks before they're planted up so's the bugs can get eaten, they're usually near the surface and easier for the birds to find  ;D

[Trevor_D]

If they're proper beds, dug & weeded, then - as Tee Gee says - let 'em get on with it. But if it's a rough area which you haven't quite got round to digging properly yet, thick plastic.

I put some down on a rough area behind the greenhouse last year. I'd weeded and dug out all the bramble & stuff, and then covered it, hoping it would go away. But She Who Must Be Obeyed has designated that area as the site for a shed. I've spent this afternoon levelling it and, when I pulled back the plastic, the soil was spotless: not a weed of any kind in sight. (I nearly forgot My Orders and turned it into another veg bed on the spot!)

[realfood]

The annual type of weeds grow right through the Winter in Glasgow, so I cover the beds with plastic or old tarpaulins to keep the beds weed free of annual weeds. Some perennial weeds try and keep growing, but doing it this way makes it so much easier to prepare the bed in the Spring for sowing.

[pookienoodle]

fabric is better than plastic as it is porous.

Cardboard? - cheaper?

Do you put anything else on or just cardboard?
I have masses of thick cardboard.

[Psi (Pronounced 'Si'!)]

true, nothing much grows now so why not leave it.  I'm slowly digging trenches and burying a load of compost/leaf mould/cardboard and then covering over - trying to improve heavy clay.  I'm leaving lumps to break down over the winter.

[Squash64]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

One of the reasons I want to cover is because someone on another plot had left theirs covered for some months and when they took the cover off - there wasn't a weed in sight!

[shirlton]

We don't cover any of our plot. Tony says that the soil needs to breathe.I don't like plastic anyway. I agree with Tee Gee about the pests too. The frost and the birds will help to see off some of the pests and the seeds

[artichoke]

"They" tell us that if soil is left uncovered over the winter, the nutrients "leach away" and we lose them.

I would like to know where they are supposed to leach to? Deeper into the ground?

That's where we would like them to be isn't it? So that roots go deep down in search of them.....

Does anyone know why we are afraid of "leaching"?

[chriscross1966]

"They" tell us that if soil is left uncovered over the winter, the nutrients "leach away" and we lose them.

I would like to know where they are supposed to leach to? Deeper into the ground?

That's where we would like them to be isn't it? So that roots go deep down in search of them.....

Does anyone know why we are afraid of "leaching"?

THey're not the people that believe in crystal healing therapy and detox diets are they?.... You can make a minor case about run-off causing soil erosion on sloped sites I guess but that's about it...

chrisfc

[Duke Ellington]

We use black plastic. The down side to using it is that it sometimes collects water on the top of it and it becomes heavy. . . not a major issue!  We use plastic because we already had it in use when we took over our plot so we used it to cover most of the plot while we dug and weeded it. Weed suppressant membrane would allow the water to go through and it would be lighter and easier to handle.

I like to cover my beds during the winter it saves so much time the next season. Before I plant or sow in spring I uncover the beds, add some BF&B or whatever does it for you and leave for a couple of weeks. When you do uncover the soil is warm and very workable. Some other plot holders that do not cover have to wait if the their soil is too wet to work or sow in ~ we dont. ;D  There will always be some that hate to use it and some that love it.

Decision Time..... ;D

Duke

[Slug_killer]

Anything that is water soluble will leach out of the soil and eventually find its way into the water course.
Where lots of people are using chemicals (especially Lime) there is a build up in the watercourses and it is this that is killing off the natural wildlife.

Eg too much lime will kill off Fish and  Frogs.

It is no single individual doing this, its a cumulative effect of hundreds/thousands of people doing it.

[Tee Gee]

"They" tell us that if soil is left uncovered over the winter, the nutrients "leach away"

What nutrients?

Surely no one feeds their ground going into winter  :o

Time enough to add nutrients just prior to planting out!

If lime is being added in the autumn then thats fine if it leaches down into the soil it means it gives it a chance to alter the soil pH.

Otherwise no feeding!!

[Old bird]

I for one am Tee Gee!!  I am putting compost/seaweed etc on top of my deep beds and leaving them for the worms to take the compost down into the soil.

I am considering covering it with plastic as - has been said - I don't want the goodness washed down too deep into the soil so that the plants can't reach it with their roots.

I am covering them for the first time this year so I will see how it works and let you know.  Can't think anything terrible will happen tho?!!

some people on our site dig HUGE DEEP (2 ft and counting) trenches for their runner beans - I don't see the point of digging so deep as the beans roots don't go down any further than 1ft (I am guessing!)  so there is a load of wasted food stuffs for plants down there!

Old Bird

:D

[Digeroo]

Does anyone know why we are afraid of "leaching"?

We are on gravel and the nutrients leach straight out of the soil like water through a sieve.  I try to put in a green manure or grow annual weeds over the winter and hoe them in spring.  So presume the answer will vary according to your soil type.

I think that the frost improves the soil texture.  Certainly for seed beds a bit of frost does a great job.

In my garden I get forgetmenot and I leave that overwinter and remove in the spring leaving a few to flower.  I think that they take up the last of the nutrients and then they get put back in as compost.

[Tee Gee]

I am putting compost/seaweed etc on top of my deep beds and leaving them for the worms to take the compost down into the soil.

I see where your going OB but as I mentioned in another thread,I don't consider manure/seaweed & compost a fertiliser, I consider them to be 'soil improvers!

I would go along with covering if I was putting farmyard manure on top!

If you don't! come spring; you find that all the faeces and urine has washed into the soil and you are left with a pile of straw/bedding on top of your soil.

I find this a bit difficult to dig in, hence my digging in my manure when I do my winter digging!

But like lots of gardening techniques it up to the individual, and my way is dig it in, and let the winter get at the soil and the annual weeds I have disturbed when digging!

Your way you create reasonable propagating/germination conditions for these seeds!

That is; they are covered, and the birds can't get at them when they are foraging for food during the winter!

So more weeds next year  ;)

As I say............each to their own! 8)

[lewic]

I can't comment on which is best for killing weeds, but the major downside of plastic is that it is lethally slippery when wet. Would not recommend it for that reason alone, I have slipped over a couple of times, luckily wasnt carrying anything sharp.

I use a cheapo version of Mypex from this place that isnt so slippery (but still take care when its wet) http://www.allplas.co.uk/acatalog/index.htm but I'm sure Tee Gee is right, and it would be better for the soil to dig and cover in compost!