Green manure

[Ishard]

Im thinking of growing some green manure this year for the first time after the main crops are out, probably red clover as this fixes nitrogen, anyway anyone had experiece of this?

When do I plant ect?

[Ishard]

[Geomet]

I have major concern as to the authenticity of the "green manure" approach...........growing it in situation that is.........Has it ever been calculated as to how much nitrogen is taken OUT to grow a crop with the intention of puting in nitrogen?..............I think a good compost/grass clippings/manure is a better approach

[tonybloke]

A clover crop when ploughed in yields about 150 - 175 kgs of nitrogen per hectare, releasing it slowly for 2 years. that's how organic farmers do it.

[Geomet]

How much nitrogen is taken OUT to produce the crop?.....................folks would need 20 or 30 rod allotements to have the luxury of leaving section unproductive for long periods

[tonybloke]

none at all! clover fixes nitrogen from the atmosphere (with help from bacteria)

[Bryan]

Hi ishard, all,
my allotment neighbour surprised me, he grows broad beans on about 5rods of his plot, which he doesn't harvest,but when they start to flower, before starting to pod up, he rips them out and lays it all in the trenches where he will plant his seed potatoes. If that is not 'Green manure' then i don't know what is. By the way, he has four 10 rod plots.

[Ishard]

Thanks for all your replies :)

There are 2 reasons why I want to plant a winter thing such as clover

1 It fixes nitrogen in the soil same as peas and can be 'tillered' in come spring

2 I dont want to give weeds the excuse to grow when there is nothing planted over winter and red clover is a great weed suppressant as it ground covers.

Bryan let me get this straight, your neighbour digs in broad bean plants BEFORE they crop? lol
Great soil, no beans then!

[caroline7758]

One of the common green manures is called "field beans" so i guess that's the same (but probably more expensive).

I've used phacelia and something else over winter and both havedone quite a good job at keeping the weeds down- I've yet to see whether they've improved the soil.

[grawrc]

My worry with green manures is the potential for the plants themselves to become a sort of weed. Rye grass for example which is advocated as a green manure is, I believe, quite hard to get rid of.

[manicscousers]

we do phacelia every year on a couple of beds that beans will be going in next year, seems to help  ;D
and we don't have it as a weed, it just pulls out easily if one escapes the hoe

[Suzanne]

As well as preventing leaching of trace elements and if you use a nitrogen fixing variety - increasing the available nitrogen levels - the green manure when dug in also adds a lot of organic matter to the soil making it more retentive over time.

[grawrc]

Yes phacelia is good and also has v pretty flowers.

[Bryan]

Ishard, all,
Yes he does it before they pod up but does leave enough to gather the beans so he can sow and do the same next year. I will be trying this myself next year, we don't like broad beans in our house, and it does seem to keep the plot weed free as he sows them in November and they are up by late January, suppressing any weed as he sows them quite dense. I forgot to mention that he is of Portuguese origin, and they practice this at home.

[Ishard]

It seems that phacelia is killed by frost so that wouldnt work for all winter although they do look pretty :)

I have E mailed Hurrels Seeds for more info on red clover as to whether I can keep this in the ground over winter and mix it in come spring.

Oh thats very interesting Bryan, however I think Im too mean to just plant the seeds of BB just for digging in, I would have to crop them. lol

[grawrc]

Have a look here http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/todo_now/faqs.php?id=8 or here http://www.organiccatalog.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21_51

[Ishard]

Grawrc thank you those links they are just what I needed.  ;D

[Froglegs]

I find Buckwheat good,grows well ,bulks up good,easy to dig in rots down quick and insect's love it's flowers

[caroline7758]

If you let green manures flower, doesn't that increase the chance of them self-seeding and causing problems later?

[manicscousers]

ours sometimes flower, we just cut them before they seed, sometimes leave a couple as the bees love phacelia flowers and they're so easy to pull up  :)

[Geomet]

I still think green manure is an entirely avoidable hassle.....surely organic matter/compost is a better approach..........contractors are pleased to get rid of grass/tree/shrub shreddings