Topic: Dirty Rats. Giant ones, tunneling ones

[Psi (Pronounced 'Si'!)]

have created a tunnel from the chicken shed on the plot behind mine which comes up under my shed.  My wife left some nuts in a bag on a shelf 3 ft off the ground and yes, they have got up there.  Droppings about 2 cm long.  Turned a phoenomical amount of soil beneth the shed and near composts.  Today discovered what looked like a nest of shredded carier bags and netting in a corner.  I have seen some rats on the neighbouring plot and they are about a foot long. 

Ok the rub.  I have 2 young kids and dont like the idea of rats around the shed.  In fact these are goliath rats and make me uneasy!!!  What is the way forward?

Traps and poison?  consistant setting of bait?  How does rat bait work?

Yours scared of huge, dirty, greasy rats.

Simon  ;D

[Robert_Brenchley]

I'd use poison myself. You know where they're going, so put it somewhere they frequent where other wildlife can't get at it. Or put in in a piece of pipe in a strategic spot. Keep renewing it, but not daily as you'll only be feeding rats which are already dying.

[glosterwomble]

Hi from a fellow scared of rats gardener! I remember very well seeing rats climbing up my corn plants stripping the cobs of corn and feeling sick!

I'm afraid that rats are very often part of allotments but I did lay poison to kill them. If you go to Wilkinsons or a diy place you can buy a box of rat poison which will look like blue grain or blue suet.  You will also probably get a little plastic tray with it. Get a piece of guttering and put it over a tray of poison so it makes a tunnel with the poison inside. This will stop other animals/birds from getting to it. This needs to be put near the rats run, you probably know where they are running back and forth so leave it there. If you have children I would suggest putting it somewhere that they can't get to or making sure they don't go to the allotment for a week or so.

I would also say do not leave anything around that they would like to eat like nuts!! Good luck!

[Psi (Pronounced 'Si'!)]

thankls all.  My wife is wonderful in aiming to feed the birds but repeatedly leaves bird food in sheds without finding a tin to put it in!  Several times!  Worse, she never tells me she has done it!  She never has to kill the things so it doesnt register! SO, its her fault!!!!

I will poisen them as i suspect they are rife in the vicinity.  I will leave pipe under the shed and check it once a week or something.  My neighbout has traps but I am such a ponce I hate extracting them from the traps!

Amazing how they seem to get established so quickly.  I guess that a food source is the thing they are after.

Thanks all

[grannyjanny]

Don't they say that you're never more than 6' away from a rat :o.

[Digeroo]

I once owrked in an office and we came back from lunch to find one sitting in the middle of the room.  I just remember being totally amazed about how big it was.  I suppose I had only seen them before at a distance and saw them as rather large mice.  Or seen a rather small pet one.  But face to face with a wild one it was huge.

I hate rats too.

[lillian]

thankls all.  My wife is wonderful in aiming to feed the birds but repeatedly leaves bird food in sheds without finding a tin to put it in!  Several times!  Worse, she never tells me she has done it!  She never has to kill the things so it doesnt register! SO, its her fault!!!!

I will poisen them as i suspect they are rife in the vicinity.  I will leave pipe under the shed and check it once a week or something.  My neighbout has traps but I am such a ponce I hate extracting them from the traps!

Amazing how they seem to get established so quickly.  I guess that a food source is the thing they are after.

Thanks all

Rats and mice have no problem  climbing up to bird feeders. Even had  mesh type peanut holder removed from its post and dragged off bythe  buggers ::)  Bought a shiney metal post to hang bird feeders on thinking that would put an end to their climbing. :'( :'( :'( :'(

[tonybloke]

you have already stated that they are getting fed from the chicken-run next door. it is therefore up to your neighbour to stop feeding them!! regular disturbance of the run / home is the best method of moving them on.
If you create a rat - shaped hole in the universe, guess what is the perfect shape to fill said hole??  (no prizes available)

Cut of  their food supply!!!! ;)

[Digeroo]

I also worked for a drain cleaning co and they cleaned the drains in a street where the sewers were not attached properly so as they cleaned they drove the rats out and in some houses they popped up through the toilets.  We had rather distraught people on the phone.  It was actually very hard not to laugh.   

So if you have an old house and you see cleaning equipment in your street then make sure you keep the toilet seat very firmly down several heavy books on top.

[lewic]

I think they are fascinating creatures, so intelligent and curious about everything.  Some friends used to have a pet one which they allowed run of the house, and it was hilarous watching it trying to carry leftover roast potatoes into its cage, or climbing up the wall of the house into the kitchen window after a trip to the garden.

Wouldnt want a wild one in my shed though. Perhaps a catapult might keep your kids amused for a few hours.. kill two birds with one stone, so to speak?

..PMSL, Digeridoo!

[fi]

it sounds like the rats are a problem on neighboring plots too and you may have problems removing them without a joint effort. on our allotments the pest terminator was called in by the committee. i  agree make the source of food unavailable to them. rats dislike change, move your compost? rats are the only thing that i have a phobia about, giant tunneling rats; i would freak. i had a very destructive rat in my shed a few winters back. the rat  had chewed a hole at the back of shed and moved in, there was nothing for it to eat but it made a mess chewing stuff up, it must have come in out of the cold . the shed is
now rat free but i always open the door very noisely as i don't want to see one!

[fi]

not sure but think rat poison is a like warfarin, so the rat bleeds to death internally.
how about  a working dog like a  jack Russell who are good ratters. took a friend to visit my mum, my friend took along her dog(half pug half jack Russell) dog trots of under bushes reappears with rat between jaws (much to my mums embarrassment), even a half J R  still has the ratter instinct. it does sound like you need a pack of jack russells! good luck.
 watch your family with where rats have been as their wet urine may carry a disease (the name of which escapes me).

[tomatoada]

Weils disease.  Not nice.

[Squash64]

I've written before about our feral cats on the allotments and a thought just occurred to me - if a rat eats poison but is then caught by one of our cats, could the poison affect the cat too?

[Pesky Wabbit]

Weils disease.  Not nice.

Weils disease is tad worse that 'not nice' !
It can cause meningitis, liver damage, and renal failure.

You should always wear gloves around rat infested areas.

If you can stomach removal of a dead rat, then trapping is better as you know where the corpse is. With poison, you only find out when it starts smelling. This may not be too much of a probelm in the lottie, but in the garden ?  :( :( :( :(

[Mortality]

I've written before about our feral cats on the allotments and a thought just occurred to me - if a rat eats poison but is then caught by one of our cats, could the poison affect the cat too?

When I asked this about putting down poison for mice, I was worried if the kids got hold of it, apparently humans need to eat their own body weight of it to harm them, im thinking cats would be alright. (It was Neosorexa/difenacoum an anticoagulant.)

[Baccy Man]

I've written before about our feral cats on the allotments and a thought just occurred to me - if a rat eats poison but is then caught by one of our cats, could the poison affect the cat too?

Yes either by secondary consumption (a rat can eat up to 30g of bait which may still be undigested when the cat eats it so the cat eats the poison full strength) or by secondary poisoning (the rat has already digested the poison but the rats liver contains active ingredients). More commonly it would be both secondary consumption & secondary poisoning.
This can result in anticoagulant rodenticide toxicosis. There are no observable signs of poisoning until the cat begins to pass blood in the stool or urine, bleeds from the nose, or develops haemorrhages beneath the gums and skin. If those symptoms were observed the cat needs to go to the vet asap for an essential injection of Vitamin K before it bleeds to death.

It is impossible to say how many rats a cat would have to consume for this to happen as it depends on the poison used, the strength of the active ingredient, how much the cat consumes, the size/weight of the cat, wether it is a large quantity of poison consumed all in one go or 1 rat a day on a regular basis causing a gradual build up etc... There have been studies carried out but there are too many variables to reach a conclusion other than; the cat will be fine or it will suffer organ damage or it will die which doesn't help much.

[Squash64]

Thank you for the information Baccy Man.