Topic: Help advice needed - New allotment covered in 10 ft brambles + some small trees

[elyfantfan]

Ok, I just got the allotment that no-one on the 4 year waiting list wanted, i reckon I am up for some hard work and that within 4 years it will be all cultivated and growing some tasty food.

But.................

Help me out with these questions. (I am trying to be weedkiller free organic etc etc)

1. I have not got a rotivator, how should I deal with the weeds initially, mow / strim them orjust pull them out or turn them over etc.
2. Should I cut the brambles up and add them to my new compost heap?
3. Or should I put them ina  communal compost heap which is well away from the plots?
4. With the  weeds and grass the same question as above, my own compost or the communal one?
5. Trees - I like them but don't want them to be a a huge problem for the plot, should I cut them down / dig them up or will they be ok, they are about 10 foot high and not fruit trees?

Any suggestions welcome.

Elyfantfan

[tonybloke]

try not to export any organic matter (unless diseased) from your plot. compost everything you can.some weed roots need either drowning or drying out totally before composting.
type of trees? need to I.D before giving advice.
welcome to mad world of allotments!!
rgds Tonybloke

[elyfantfan]

Cheers Tony bloke,

I guess then that I should shred them as small as possible to get the compost working.

Elyfantfan

[tonybloke]

it's all in the composting, as weeds grow, they accumulate whatever is lacking in the soil, clovers in nitrogen-poor soil fix nitrogen, daisies in chalk deficient soil fix calcium, fat hen fixes phosphorous, etc. if it grew on your plot, add it compost! plus anything you can import.
have fun!!
tonybloke

[manicscousers]

hiya, elyfantfan..welcome to the site..cut it as short as you can, cover what you can't dig, dig a bit at a time and don't kill yourself  ;D
mark out your paths and try not to walk on your beds and enjoy your plot

[tim]

Start a Safari Park?

[albacore1854]

My plot was similar when I first took it on a few years back.

Hack everything down
burn  it, as many fires as you can get away with, as each is clearing a bit more ground for you.

Buy a mattock, go over the whole plot with it, and take out the big roots.Burn them.

Start at the other end, dig it with a  fork, and get out more weeds.Burn them.

Rake it level.

[albacore1854]

Don't fanny about thinking a shed will go here, or a path there etc.

Clear the whole lot in one hit.A mattock is essential though, you can normally pick one up at the builders merchants for less than 15 quid.Heavier the better for ground breaking.6ft crowbars are also useful for getting tree roots out, you get a lot more leverage with them, a scaffold bar is just as good.

Your four year time frame is way out, I would say a day to hack it all down and clear the site, a day to break it, then after a few runs out digging, you should be able to hit 5 rods a day without too much trouble.

If you are buying a fork, see if you can get one of those used by the road gangs, heavy and longer than a gardener's fork.Far stronger too, false economy buying shiny stainless rubbish from the high street, they just snap, either the tines or the handles when you are breaking a plot.Fine for later though.

[Columbus]

Hi Elyfantfan  :)

A. All of the above.

If the trees are self-seeded sycamore or willow, oak or conker that the squirrels have brought for you get rid of them as soon as possible. They will take your light, water and nutrients. An allotment is the wrong place for this kind of tree.
You can replace them with suitable, well sited fruit trees asap or wait `til next year.
I love my bramble hedges at each end of my plot (and so do all my plot neighbours) but they had to be brought under control and fenced in. Again they would rob the light from other crops if not pruned every year. Can you take out the rampant part of the brambles and leave yourself with a managed bramble hedge to produce an annual crop of blackberries?

As for the rest, strim it if you can and burn it if you are allowed, cover it in black plastic or tarpaulins then start digging and planting.
You may have to skim off turves and pile them up for a long time if you have a plot full of couch grass. Don`t dig weed roots into your soil and don`t let them make seed it just causes more problems.

Make yourself a big composting area and compost everything you can. Get a shed. Read this forum.  ;D

My first plot was like your but it gets easier I can now keep two plots (soon to be two-and-a-half) productive and almost weed-free by myself.

Col

[albacore1854]

That's the beauty of a mattock, its so fast at turning ground over there is no need for polythene.Even after a day's digging, its still possible to belt through another section with the mattock to turn it over.

I really can't see what the fuss is about couch grass, it comes out easy enough.Marestail, now that's another matter.

[posie]

Couldn't tell you about trees, but I can tell you about the digging.  Whatever you do, don't overdo it!  Unless you want to end up in traction.  Strim it back, cover what you're not working to keep the growth down and take it slow and steady and don't forget lots of photos of before and after to keep you going and keep our nosiness at bay!!!  Oh and don't forget the donuts and a large flask of tea/coffee.  Enjoy  ;D ;D

[albacore1854]

You could divide it mentally into chunks 9ft X 15 ft, these should take roughly an hour to dig over.

[Sparkly]

We were in the same position when we took on our 2nd plot at the end of last summer. You can have a look at our progress on our blog http://lottieplotfour.blogspot.com/

*Strim/chop it all down to a few inches high (spraying before with glyphosphate will help but is not organic).
*Dig the brambles/tree stumps out with a mattock.
*Cover up the plot with black plastic or old carpet.
*Dig over small manageable areas removing all the perenial weed roots (identify these so you know what you are dealing with).
*Once clear get the area planted or recovered as leaving it will allow the annual weeds to take over.

Don't attempt too much at once ! Good luck!

[saddad]

Welcome Elyfantfan... we've got a couple like that on our site, so when you are done just toddle over here!
 ;D

[SMP1704]

I'm with Albacore - except for the speed (there's a man who has 3 weetabix a day ;) :D)

Also with Columbus on the trees - get them out before they turn into 30ft monsters.

We all aim to be organic but also need to be pragmatic.  Weedkiller this year, get a bit of control over the weeds and brambles and then be organic.

and remember to enjoy - it is supposed to be a hobby ;D

[Thegoodlife]

 ;D ;D ;D ;D find a friendly farmer with a jcb & tractor & rotovator.

or.

light one stick of dynamite stand well back & hey presto one water feature & turned over soil ;D


have fun

[Curryandchips]

Think it has all been said, you can cash in on your gym membership, you won't need it now ! Try and take regular breathers, I stop for a mouthful of coffee every half hour or so. When the coffee breaks join up, I know it is time to go home.

[bupster]

You could divide it mentally into chunks 9ft X 15 ft, these should take roughly an hour to dig over.

Not when they're full of perennial weeds they don't! 9 in by 15 in perhaps!

Seriously, take it very slowly. Strim it all back - you can compost anything you strim as long as it isn't setting seed - and take out the trees unless they're productive. If you've got no access to a strimmer, a pair of secateurs, strong gloves and a sharp spade will do the job if a lot slower.

Cover it in plastic or it'll all grow straight back. Focus on the amount you can do - maybe cover half or even three quarters of it and just focus on the last quarter.

Dig. There are various ways to get rid of perennial weed roots, but I wouldn't bung them straight on the compost and your communal heap may not allow them either. I have a compost heap and an evil heap. May burn evil or may rot the stuff in water, haven't decided yet.

Try to get one bed ready and plant something you'll get a lot out of, so you know what you're working for. I'd say some leeks and some chard, maybe also one of those oriental salad mixes, as they're tough as old boots and easy to grow, and taste great.

All the very best and good luck. I had 16 sq m of brambles when I took mine on and no strimmer or rotavator. Start with the end in mind and set yourself a sensible time frame - I'd say four years is spot on if you work full time and have other things in your life.  :)

[Robert_Brenchley]

If it's in a state where it can be dug at anything like that rate, it doesn't need digging. Don't waste energy.

[albacore1854]

my rate is one prong full every 15-20 seconds.20 seconds is a long time.At that pace you can keep going all day, any faster and you tire.

Appreciate that you will not get all the weeds out first time, and just concentrate on the task in hand, and keep it turning over.

The weeds you leave will be dislodged.When you have finished digging the plot one way, level it with the rake.Then go back the other way taking out weed.It gets easier.

Don't be tempted to start cutting out beds, or worse still start in the middle.You'll just look stupid.