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Ordered bathroom Shutters almost a year ago from person (1) who designs the Fabric which is encapsulated in Perspex Sheets by another person (2). These have Hinges made by someone else (3). We paid (1) in full in May.
In a month or so, the hinges rusted & broke.

We have lived on promises since then. (2) can't get (3) to provide satisfactory, rustless hinges.

I can't afford a Solicitor's advice & I can't see who one can take to a Small Claims Court – where (2) would say that he is doing his best to supply.

Suggestions hugely welcome!!

= Tim

Your contract is with the person whom you paid for the item, presumably person 1?

You do not have a contract with 2 or 3, and they have no obligation to you, unless you paid 2 or 3 for the parts the sent to 1.
If on the other hand, you paid 2 or 3 separately, then you must sue them separately, because you have separate contracts with them.  

You must first give the seller chance to recitfy the faults. If they can or will not do that, then you sue 1 in a small claims court.

The Sale of Goods Act says an item sold must  be a) of merchantable quality, b) as described and c) fit for purpose

If 1 is selling an item ihe claims doesnt rust, and it does, then its misrepresentation to you. Its not your problem or liability where he gets his faulty hinges from. He must sue 2 for misrepresenting to him the hinges dont rust.

Your contract was with whoever you bought the shutters from Tim, so that's (1).  You have a right under (I think) the Sale of Goods Act 1979 as ammended for the goods to be of "satisfactory quality", and I think you can demand your money back if not.

I'd say that the best option is to visit Citizens Advice who can better advise, but Trading Standards should also be able to help.

I think the process is something like:  you write to the trader stating the defect and saying why it isn't of satisfactory quality, and you give them a reasonable time to put the matter right or give you your money back - and you give a definite date and use the words "time is of the essence".  And if you haven't got a result by then you have the option of using the small claims (where you'd need to prove that in the balance of probabilities the shutters weren't of satisfactory quality) to get the money back.  But get some better advice from the above before you do anything.

As above, your contract appears to be with 1.  It's irrelevant to you if he sub-contracted bits of the work out.  I don't think you would be able to get your money back unless the shutters can't be repaired.  What you would be claiming for would be the cost of getting someone else to do the remedial work if 1. won't.  Here's the Consumers' Association guidance on using the Small Claims track.

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/making-a-complaint/taking-a-dispute-to-the-small-claims-court/your-rights/

It's very striaghtforward, you can do the forms online and the court is very informal and you represent yourself.

If the hinges actually broke within a few weeks then I doubt you are the first person this has happened to. I would do some Googling, you may find forums where people are complaining about the same issue.

If the polite request for rectification or full refund is not forthcoming, I'd write the company a stiff letter outlining what you intend to do about the matter and how you are sure they do not want to tarnish their reputation for good customer service over such a petty matter.

Of course they may be about to go bankrupt and not have the money though, in which case you are probably stuffed.. but a good hardware shop may be able to sort you out with replacement hinges.

I knew it - brilliant Forum!!  In an attempt to clarify:

1. Order placed 'for bathroom use'. Fabric designer (1) had them made by (2).
2. All money paid to her.
3. Hinges collapse. Hinge supplier (3) visits & recognises fault. (1) is pressing (2) for replacement, & (3) for compensation. I have had to pay fro installation & for removal.
4. No other hinges will fit the existing holes in the shutters.
5. (2) is supposed to be re-making the shutters - which had 2 other faults, each of which made them unsatisfactory. Repair is not possible.
6. (3) is being a pain in trying to source suitable hinges. (I would have thought that the world was bursting with marine suitable items?
7. I know of no other designer/maker combination that makes this type of shutter.
8. Yes - I've done Small Claims before - shoddy builder.
9. I am in the Cotswolds - the others are in London.
10. The initial cost involved was some £700. Installation & removal were extra.

Right - now to read up all the references.

= Tim

PS - lewic - the supplier- who makes the embedded fabric & has the perspex units made is a girl working on her own.

Would a threat of an email to Watchdog move them along any faster Tim ??

It's this conundrum - I don't want to knock the girl (1) - she's in no way at fault - unless she failed to  specify rustless hinges. She's been pressing for satisfaction for months.

And now to bed. Yes - I am of that age!!

Tim my 42 year old daughter often goes to bed when her youngest does, 7.30 ;D. Like her mum she loves her bed ;D.

Quote from: tim on October 13, 2011, 20:13:44
It's this conundrum - I don't want to knock the girl (1) - she's in no way at fault - unless she failed to  specify rustless hinges. She's been pressing for satisfaction for months.

And now to bed. Yes - I am of that age!!

Right. But the problem is your contract is with her, and she has a legal obligation to provide you with the agreed product, since she has taken your money.

This may be a case of you having to choose if you want to be nice to her or you want your money back off her, cos there really the only two choices you have.

 Tim, excuse me writing this , please do not forget to keep copies of all correspondence & names of people you speak to & dates etc:.
Good luck with sorting things out, personally i always go to Citizen Advice for excellent help.

Tim, if you claim against the wrong party, the case will be struck out in court.  If your contract is with party no.1, then that is who you need to pursue.

And what rosebud said about copies and records.  And photographs, lots of photographs.

I guess the answer is "no" Tim but I thought I'd ask anyway.....

Do you have legal protection as part of your home insurance? Cost is around £20 a year with your Home insurance.

From a quick scan through this thread it seems to me that your purchase was not fit for purpose.
Trading Standards should be able to advise you and may well take up the case for you.

I knew it - brilliant Forum!! (Qoute by Tim)



Thats why we are here Tim ;D

Me too!!

Great advice - thanks to all.

Legal protection?  - funny you should ask - just renewed yesterday & believe I said NO - so must go back on that.

Copies? Oh, yes - I file everything.

Quote from: tim on October 14, 2011, 08:55:17

Legal protection?  - funny you should ask - just renewed yesterday & believe I said NO - so must go back on that.

An added bonus:

We added legal protection partly because it enables you to draw up a Will (if you want to do that sort of thing) with an on-line form that can then be checked and forms a legal doc. Cheaper than the £80 to £150 a solicitor would charge for a similar straight forward Will.

---

Just thought - Legal Protection will not take on pre/post-dated legal problems - only ones that occur during the life of the policy!! Thought I had better add that bit.  ;)

Much to learn, isn't there!

Your note came in just as I was writing to the shutter MAKER. If HE can't remove his finger, (1) has no one to turn to.

As others have said forget writing to the shutter maker  Your contract is with the person you paid.   If they are having a problem with their supplier - the shutter maker, that is their problem.   

Yes - point taken. But it might help to put pressure on him from another angle.

Somehow HE has to be persuaded into action. A refund from (1) though Court action would be a fair result, but it's (2)'s shutters we want!

Watch this space!!