Allotments 4 All

QuoteOn a personal note; I often think what with all the changes that are being made to composts the manufacturers have not got a recipe that is as stable as peat based composts.

Could the substitute ingredients be conflicting with the fertilisers?

QuoteFor what its worth, my money is on its too acidic.

QuoteIMHO the composts seem to vary more these days batch to batch I wonder if that is due to the amount of re-cycled waste going in and it varies

I still think the problem is any or all of the above.

I also think because the manufacturers/suppliers are putting all this rubbish in the mix that creates an imbalance or shortage of Nitrogen.

For instance the recipe they use may have the same amount of nitrogen that they would normally put into a peat based mix,  but all this rubbish is taking this up in the 'rotting down' process, and the seedlings are subsequently starved of nitrogen when they need it most!

Then again they might be skimping on the whole 'fertiliser' content to cut costs and if this is the case then this makes the situation worse.

I keep coming back to the issue with the plants,  they seem to stop growing after pricking out???? could this be fertiliser starvation or wrong pH or maybe both?

Something is certainly causing this phenonema and I don't think it is the gardener.

I have been growing my stuff more or less the same way as I have done for tens of years, and it is only recently that  I have contracted these types of problems.

That is;  since I have become involuntary involved with recycled ( so called organic) materials including farm yard manure and its  aminopolopryd content my success rate has dropped substantially.

Sadly what I think might be happening is; the new gardeners know no better, and are buying these products and if they have a failure they might be putting this down to their inexperience when infact it is the inferior products they are using!

Then because the products are selling ( in this niche market) the manufactures/ suppliers will do nothing about it!

In the bigger scheme of things if they have the odd bag returned this means nothing because they will have allowed a waste/return factor in their production costs!

Now if there was a mass refusal to buy these products then something might be done about it!

Perhaps next season we can have a 'sticky' thread on the subject and send a link of the results back to the government, garden suppliers and organisations like NVS and the RHS to name a couple!

QuoteSo I think I will contact Scotts and see what they say. 

I hope you do and it might be a good idea to submit a link of this thread to them as well and let them know what the growers think of their products.



I think I have said enough for now! I think I have shown what I think of the whole issue and will close before I write something that that I might live to forget. >:( >:( >:(

Over to you;........................

I must agree with everything that has been said we need to get feed back to all the manufactures they are now robbing as of the product we are paying for whats coming out of some bags is only fit for the scrap man >:(

We need a threead where we can leave comments on each types os compost at the start of the season. Understand that own brand compost such as B&Q, Morrisons , Tescos and Wilkos goes out to tender to the actual compost makers each year, hence someone different might be making it each time, using different raw materials, and a different recipe. And also take regard that supermarkets et al want it made as cheap as possible. SO to an extent, the maker are making what the sellers ask for, so if they ask for stuff with rubbish in, thats what they get.

The only products that are totally consistent are custom, mixed profession growing mediums made for large nurseries, where they are more concerned about end product quality, and therefore compost quality.

I can put up a sticky in The Basics for reviews of all the various composts that folks try but please keep comments factual i.e. what the compost was like and how your plants performed in it.

Any posts along the lines of XYZ Ltd compost is made from herbicide contaminated waste, bagged up by child sweatshop labour and transported on the backs of cruelly-treated donkeys will be removed unless you can provide court of law standard evidence.

Quote from: ceres on July 02, 2011, 18:22:32
I can put up a sticky in The Basics for reviews of all the various composts that folks try but please keep comments factual i.e. what the compost was like and how your plants performed in it.

Any posts along the lines of XYZ Ltd compost is made from herbicide contaminated waste, bagged up by child sweatshop labour and transported on the backs of cruelly-treated donkeys will be removed unless you can provide court of law standard evidence.

lol

how about some donkey poo and starving mutated 5 year old with chemical blisters on his hands?

I have bought compost from the same DIY store I have always bought it and it is dreadful, full of wood splinters too, I thought wood absorbed nitrogen so imagine if the compost starts out ok by the time it is stored etc it may be not as good as it was when it was made, horrid stuff to work with too.  Please correct me if I am wrong :)

Quote from: grannyjanny on July 02, 2011, 10:46:41
I was one who complained Deb. You gave me the details so I was able to. Two years I gave them the benefit of the doubt. This year I got some B & Q Which best buy. What a load of RUBBISH. I bought Erin this year too. They asked far an empty bag & I sent them the rubbish I'd sieved out. They want to compensate me as they can understand my frustrations. Perhaps if more people complained they would do something about it.

Problem was it was a best buy last year.... this year their accountants forced them to try to up its profitability based on the higher sales so of course, quality dropped.... last years was the best cheap MPC I've ever seen, this years was dreadful.... I had serious problems with germination of usually easy things ...less than one-year old self-saved bean seeds for starters.....If this carries on I might start mixing my own... my topsoil is gritty, I can get unlimited recycled waste easily enough, the local (and I mean local, its quicker to cycle to than drive) garden centre does the assorted base mixes cheaply, some of the Vitax ones it sells loose IIRC......I can get the odd bale of peat I suppose.....

chrisc

Well-rotted leaf mould is a perfectly adequate substitute for peat. The stuff's not magic; the problem is the low quality of the alternatives.

Long shot but is there any possibility it could be vine weevil - it's the only thing I've ever come across that leaves plants in suspended animation?

Quote from: Alex133 on July 05, 2011, 18:40:09
Long shot but is there any possibility it could be vine weevil - it's the only thing I've ever come across that leaves plants in suspended animation?

No, I don't think so.  I have had the odd vine weevil problem in containers in the past but my understanding is that they are far more prevalent if the compost is peat based. 

G x

if it was a vine weevil problem you would find the little blighters in the bottom of the pot as you potted on

There's a nematode for Vine Weevil now

yea i always got some v weevil food ;)on stand by as i have had them at home in the past  ive yet to recognise a adult

Quote from: brown thumb on July 06, 2011, 14:17:40
i have had them at home in the past  ive yet to recognise a adult

My wife commented that goes for men as well.

:-[

lol :-X

My okra seems to have same problem with lack of growth as Georgie's, so after my vine weevil post dug one out of pot to have a look. Definitely no grubs there, unless microscopic, not many roots either. Have attempted a kill or cure - added some blood,fish & bone and watered in - they'll probablyn just keel over and die now!

not over watered r they the roots seems to drop then     i could nt get my tom seedling to grow this year they  turned blue and stopped growing at 2-3 inches high and wouldnt move so they all went in the bin no toms this year other then  oneself seeded in the green house so now iam thinking that may be the compost was at fault as i did every thing as  p revious years just set them off later then norm

I found this:
Causes of poor root development

Overwatering
Soil moisture that is not absorbed rapidly turns stagnant; the plant quickly uses up any oxygen within the water, then is unable to respire further, resulting in moisture low in o2. Pythium thrives in low-oxygen (anaerobic) conditions.

In short, overwatering will slowly suffocate your roots, preventing sufficient oxygen uptake by the roots, and ultimately causing root rot.

Soil with high bark content
This can cause a "bonsai" effect. The roots will not be able to grow through the bark, preferring to grow around the chunks of bark. This slows down root growth and most obviously plant growth. Ive encounter this recently; once transplanted into proper soil, they have shown remarkable recovery.

[Editor's note: bark is quite acidic, may may afect soil water pH]

Light deprivation
Although your plant may be receiving light, particular strains may require higher light levels than others. A recommended light level for full bud development is 50 watts/m2. Full sunlight is 100,000 lumens max.

Low nutrient strength
The plant is unable to acquire the necessary amounts of nutrients to sustain high growth rates. Large and mature plants can take higher nutrient strengths.

Nutrient strength is also related to the light intensity; plants under fluorescent lights usually require a lower nutrient concentration than under HIDs.

Nutrient lockup
Adding too much of a nutrient (ex. Magnesium) can "lockup" one or more nutrients, rendering them chemically unavailable to the plant. Nutrient lockup can occur at extreme pH ranges (ie. under 5.0, over 7.0).

by Ranger2000:

Light spectrum
Light that does not contain enough red spectrum (too much blue)
Light spectrum can have a dramatic effect on plant growth, with different ligh frequencies affecting different photosynthetic processes within the leaf. Selecting a blue spectrum in a vegetative growth phase is preferred, with red spectrum in flowering.

pH
pH is too high or too low (ie. acidic soil. The plants come out as mutants).
Plants are unable to absorb nutrients, or in adequate quantities within certain pH ranges. Optimum pH varies with each medium. Hydroponics and aeroponics: 5.6-5.8. Soilless: 6.0-6.3 Soil: 6.5-7.0.

Many soilless mixtures can be fairly acidic, due to their high % bark content.

Low temperatures
Plant metabolism will decrease at low temperatures. Chemical reactions within the plant will take longer. Optimum plant growth often requires close temperature regulation; daytime temperatures between 25C and 30C are preferred. Differences in daytime and nighttime temps should not be dramatic, as this difference may shock the plant.

by 10K:

Low soil / medium temp
Evaporation from a medium (i.e. peat pots) tends to chill the medium quite a bit due to the evaporative cooling effect. As the peat pot warms, it draws moisture outward, the evap effect cools the peat (like sweating). New growers often make the mistake of adding excessive amounts of water, resulting in cold soil, poor root formation and slowed growth

Thanks for that Lincs!

I think the key part as far as I was concerned is this bit;

QuotepH
pH is too high or too low (ie. acidic soil. The plants come out as mutants).

Plants are unable to absorb nutrients, or in adequate quantities within certain pH ranges.

QuoteMany soilless mixtures can be fairly acidic, due to their high % bark content.

or other constituent materials e.g. pulverised wood!

I think we established this earlier on in the thread!

QuoteLow temperatures
Plant metabolism will decrease at low temperatures.

Differences in daytime and nighttime temps should not be dramatic, as this difference may shock the plant.

Agreed we were having very warm day temperatures in April/May and low night temperatures!



Annoying though it has been it is comforting to see scientific evidence of my thoughts!

At least I now now that the problem was outwith my control!

And the other consolation is; my stuff that survived is starting to grow as are my replacement sowings!

What I am hoping for now is; that we do not have an early winter, then hopefully I will be able to harvest my late sowings/plantings!

Thanks again links that was an interesting article...Tg

Thanks Lincs, that explains my problems too, that's a really good article, at least I know it is not something I have done.  I went and bought some new compost this morning, much more expensive stuff in the hope it is better for some plants I really want to keep but haven't opened the bag yet! Thank you :)