Allotments 4 All

A number of people on our site are no dig people. I understand everyone to their own, but why do these people have make everything so tatty. cardboard everywhere held down with car tyres and bits of iron. Straw left to blow over everyones plot. And I have never seen anything growing on these plots. These people smirk when they see you actually digging.  Does anyone else have my idea that there is only one way to use an allotment thats dig the -- thing. And put your back into it.

get your fork and spade and get stuck in is my motto.....each to there own

The no dig doesn't mean that you do not dig.. ::)..it should be said..dig less method..
And as to your messy ones...well I think they got it a bit wrongish...if it's done properly it should not look that much different from the diggers ones..and anyway I bet they do not realize that some of that "rubbish" that they use it doesn't do any good for them or the soil.
Straw is good though..I wish there would be some blowing to mine..I would wet it down.. ;)
I'm not one of these "all in order" people in allotments..I admit..and I do prefer to see things a bit relaxed style and love to use and see other using straw..but I do draw my line for car tyres... it is the bare soil that I do not like seing...it is advertisement for weeds to settle in...and for me it is sign of soil in un-natural state..poor state..I'm all for use mulches..more the merrier.. ;)

We all have our own ways of gardening but not every one can manage to put their backs into it as you say some have to garden within their capabilities or what their disabilities will allow you to do.

certainly lets us out, if we didn't do no dig, raised bed method, we wouldn't be able to do it, however, we do dig certain crops out when ready  :)

I personally am not a fan of the no dig policy.  But I suppose as long as the no dig policy does not mean "no weeding policy".  One of our plot holders try to use it as an excuse for the triffids style jungle state of their plot..... ::) ::) ::)

" No Comment"

Quote from: manicscousers on May 16, 2010, 08:45:21
certainly lets us out, if we didn't do no dig, raised bed method, we wouldn't be able to do it, however, we do dig certain crops out when ready  :)

....and your plot is far from messy manics! I have to admit that although we have raised beds we do dig them, albeit only a spades depth rather than deeper. I think you may be suffering from neglected plots due to the people, not the method. I know people who use 'no dig' and have very tidy looking plots.

I don't like messy plots in general. Allotments are for growing produce not weeds! I agree that a weed free plot is a standard that not many can keep. We have some on our site that think someone should be shot for having 1 weed on their plot. I don't think I am quite siding that far - I guess those of you that have seen the videos of our plot seed that it is tidy, but there are some weeds it is not perfect! We also have some on our site that say their unkept plot is under 'permaculture' techniques. I have no problem with people trying difficult techniques, but having an area that is basically wild with the odd potato plant stuck in isn't on either! I think some people do the same with 'no dig'. They use it as an excuse for not tending their plot. If it is done properly it is a great technique.

Quote from: Good Gourd 2 on May 16, 2010, 07:05:44
Does anyone else have my idea that there is only one way to use an allotment...

Yes, there are other people who think like you.

well its my first year on my plot and its hard going so its a mixture of both dig and no dig.
the no dig is 4 raised lasagne beds all with things planted in them.
I did this to get some use out of sections that I may not have time to turn over until later in the year.
my plot still has masses of weeds and brambles(what possesed the council to rotovate? >:() and so still looks messy.
then again as its a re opened site the paths(if you could call them that) are very weedy and full of brambles also.

I should have made myself clearer, under no circumstances am I referring to people with disabilities and the ways that they tend their plots. I should know as my husband is registered blind and 67 at that. He still digs but of course we have to have thick white ropes and guides for him to be able to do anything and this is perhaps why we try to be tidy and have a path so that he does not lose his way. I must add that he is great at weeding the onion bed as they are easy to tell plant from weed, on his hands and knees between the rows. I am talking about the individuals in their thirties no disabilities, that laugh at such as us digging and gardening in the conventional way that our fathers and grandfathers did. Then telling you that digging is bad for the soil. As for getting produce  from the plot we kept ourselves in veg for most of the year and won 3 cups and about 7 rosettes at the local shows whilst our no dig mate got 3 boilings of potatoes, a few gooseberries and although I can`t be sure not much else at least it was not evident.  Sorry if I have offended anyone, I did not intend to.

It sounds more as if your neighbour is just a bit of a hopeless gardener!
I try to dig as little as possible, as I have a minimum of time, so I cover in winter, yes with cardboard and old bricks and crap like that, but I can assure you that it saves a  lot of time and back breaking in spring! After that, of course I must dig a bit to plant and weed and harvest, but with mulching and use of weed covers you weed much less.
I can proudly say that with this method, I harvested last year many kilos of spuds, onions, garlic, beans, pumpkins, tomatoes etc etc. This year my fruit bed is mulched with ground up office paper, much to the amusement of my neighbours.
Using methods that minimize work may be seen as lazy by some people, that's their opinion. If I can cover and spend half the amount of time preparing my bed, it seems like common sense to me!!! If people think I am lazy, well, that's down to them. My plot does get weeds, but I try to keep them down as much as possible.
Perhaps you have already pointed out to your neighbour that his harvest is crap and he has taken offence? But after all, it's his allotment, if he pays for it and weeds don't invade your plot, then it's just each to his own...

No Dig is all very well but its very inefficient in land usage - raised beds are in general. I like to us every square inch of my plot to grow something.

Quote from: lincsyokel2 on May 17, 2010, 13:34:15
No Dig is all very well but its very inefficient in land usage - raised beds are in general. I like to us every square inch of my plot to grow something.

do you dig the bits you walk on? you know, the bits between the rows of spuds, etc?

the most productive land in the UK is never dug! (clover-rich pasture) ;)

have a look on here http://www.charlesdowding.co.uk/ for info on No-Dig gardeneing.

That site is all about how land should be treated.. ;D
Been watching people on the lottie next door this morning...all they do is either dig and dig and dig..and sweep...and dig.. ::) Everywhere is bare soil..some veg dotted about..not a single weed evident...if anything surfaces it will be soon turned over... ::) They use fertilizers and sprays..and then they wonder why they are hit army of pest every year.. ::) It is not natural..land should be treated as nature does..it receives dressing on plant matter/compost to feed little things in soil..if those are happy rest of the food chain is happy.. ;D
We need to feed the soil not the plants..then rest will follow accordingly... ;)
I've got "old" 70's gardening book; Compost Gardening by W.E Shewell- Cooper and that is so good..basically it is all about "having lavish, high-quality results with the minimum of work"..very much same as Charles Downing practices.."dig as little as possible" method...I don't think there is such as no dig garden...that is "don't want work" method....as sooner or later you are putting your trowel or spade in..
Certainly thorough digging is not necessary..not every year...I'll try to keep it only for potatoes

I believe in minimum digging and mulching like mad. If I didn't have hedges I'm sure someone would moan about the messy grass cuttngs decaying everywhere.

Thank you to everyone that has joined in and given me their points of view. I can understand every angle that has been  mentioned and yes hats off to  less work. I do in all honesty think my neighbour is unusual and not the normal allotment tenant. I counted today and he has scraped 4  pieces clear about 1ft x18" and  there is 1 onion I think or the like g owning
in each spot. The cardboard has gone  he was asked to remove it by the council.  So perhaps we have progress.  There are over 40 people waiting for a plot, so I don`t think he will reign long.

I think whether you dig or not you should keep your plot as weed free as possible.  Weed seeds blow onto neighbours plots and couch grass is the bane of my life coming from neighbours plots!....so please if you want to leave your weeds do it in your own back garden and give up your allotment!

Yeah, I've had the 'you won't get as much from raised beds' position preached at me. It isn't true, he probably wouldn't get as much as he does on a conventional plot. But I have to work, OH works a 6 day week, we both do scouts, restore and show cars and do like a bit of telly once in a while....raised beds, a mix of mulched annual crops and even more mulched fruit works fine for us. I tried the normal way the first year and the weeds smothered the crops, as soon as you fall behind on weeding it takes longer and longer to do each area and before you know it the weeds have gone to seed and the neighbours ain't very happy.

Horses for courses folks :)

PS cardboard is great mulch for the first year, it's free + permeable and you can pile the weeds you just dug out on top to hold it down :)

I'm somewhere between no dig and dig  ::)  When I took the plot on in 2006, I dug out 8x4 beds and left the paths (why dig what I'm going to walk on) but then soon discovered that's where the weeds lived :-\ and spend the rest of the year trying to gain the upper hand and you know who won that battle. :'(

Charlie our resident old timer didn't quite know what to make of me, he thought I was another one of those 'organic' types who came to watch the weeds grow.  Charlie has been growing organically for years - crop rotation, composting etc but he just called it growing to feed his family.  He chuckled over my pumpkin pits - 4 1mx1m squares dug out of a horsetail field but had to admit the 4 full sized fruits that needed a wheelbarrow to shift was pretty good going.  In the end we agreed that we just grew differently, he started using squash bottles over canes to prop up netting and I started misting my runner beans with water to help them to set in dry years.

I now have 4 8x4 shallow beds that I fork over once a year to combine a bit more compost or manure, two deep 6x4 beds and a deep 12x4 beds.  The deep beds just get ruffled over.  I then have 3 larger areas that I now just fork over once a year and hoe everything during the year to keep weeds at bay.

I don't think it is the no dig principle that is at fault, but rather how people apply that to their plots.