Allotments 4 All

Just watched this and it made depressing viewing. I did, however, find myself wondering how well any of us would have got on in those situations? ( I remember working in the milk bar in Glasgow as a student getting screamed at by the chef for taking too long to wash and prepare salad. Mind you none of my salads ever got sent back by the customers. ;) I did the job thoroughly enough but hadn't yet twigged how fast you need to turn things round.)

I reckon it takes more than a couple of days to learn a job particularly the waiting/ restaurant  job. I felt quite sorry for the young lad and his frustration at his inability to cope. But what restaurant manager in their right mind puts a rookie on alone on his first day? And yes of course he would need to learn all the dishes and their names before being able to take orders. It's not exactly pie and chips and very often it's quite hard to know by looking which Indian dish is which. That's why carryouts come labelled. Since the return of the school uniform I have had to show loads of kids at secondary school how to tie their ties. Easy when you know how.

As to the asparagus pickers there are probably issues of fitness involved and none of them looked particularly fit. The young laddie with the ADHD looked to me like he'd never done a day's work in his life and was spoilt rotten by his mum.

The joiner needs a course in anger management but otherwise seemed OK. Ditto the potato pickers once the skinny one got Charlie off his back and stopped slagging his co-workers. Sad that there were no jobs for them at the end.

The really depressing thing was the ones who didn't even turn up or turned up and didn't come back. perhaps an element of fear of failure? Overwhelmed. But yes given the availability of a suitable job and the fitness of the individual for the job I'm not sure that benefits should be paid.

I'm not at all a military type person but I do sometimes wonder if scrapping military service was a mistake? 18 months to 2 years in the army makes sure that young folk can deal with the routines of normal living and working. I'm not suggesting they should all be gun carrying combatants. Other countries have "evolved" their military service to social service but in terms of work ethic it certainly helps.

Even in the 1960s when there was full employment there were always a few who were unemployable. Never completed a week at a job.  My father was a personnel officer and they simply could not get staff. I recall him saying the manager of the Labour Exchange stating that those on their books were just not worth sending out as they never turned up.

I know jobs at present are hard to find and a lot of people are taking a huge wage cut just to be working but there is an underclass, possibly it is to do with some mental health issue.  After all it can not be possible to exist on £60 a week benifits unless another family member is subsidising what is called the 'job seeker'.

It is a mistake to think that only the UK has them. Having friends in countries where there is no support, I know that they have work shy people who seem to 'get by'.  Would our petty crime rate rise if we withdrew our benefits system and  would it cost more in policing?

Government training schemes are costly too, they have to pay for administration and supervision. No one seems to know the answer to the problem.

Some employers are taking the p*ss with wages and work conditions. I would have liked to see that fat posh asparagus farm owner do a days picking - it looked like backbreaking work that nobody could do for long without risking their health.

Our jobs page in the paper consists of about 4 pages now, and even if everyone on benefits woke up tomorrow vowing to get a job and stick at it, there arent enough to go round. Of course some people are lazy but its rubbish to say that the benefit system is too soft - I may be made redundant later in the year and JSA would not even pay my bills.

I have a brother who is coming up to retirement. His last employment was a milk monitor at school. He worked the system all of his life. Got housed, brought up several families, runs a car, big telly, pays nothing towards medical etc.  You know the sort. He still rants and raves over his money being paid in late and reckons the world owes him a living.
    Needless to say, he gets short shrift off of me when he starts on 'youve got this and youve got that' . I just tell him to get a job then.

Glad to read that people had positive experiences after doing YTS.

saddad, you must be pretty frustrated at the moment and I can see from your various posts that you're an experienced and resourceful person. I hope you've got allotmenteering on your CV!  :)

It is very frustrating when people cannot get jobs.  But there are a great number of things in society that are simply not being done.

People long term in hospital need visitors, and help with feeding etc.  Carers at home need breaks, they need housework done while they are caring.  Old people need help to get out and about.  There are huge numbers of lonely old people  There is litter all over the place.  Local authorities have cut down on flowers in towns becuase of the cost of watering them.

There are huge numbers of things that need to be done in society which are not being done, and yet we are then spending huge amounts of money paying people to do nothing.

Having a handicapped daughter there were years when life was very difficult and for which I received a tiny aount in carers allowance. 
I also have a husband who has had a stroke and he has had to relearn every noun.  The name of every object, person or place had gone.  And it takes him ages to relearn each one.  We have currently managed to organise something for three days each week, but he really needs someone to come in and just take to him and couple of days a week.  Yet we pay millions of people to do nothing instead.

I do not wish in any way to be patronising.  My husband was make redundant I know the upset it causes.  But I just find it totally frustrating to see people doing nothing, knowing there are other people out there at their wits ends.

Yikes if I was disabled or in hospital I wouldnt want to rely on a disgruntled teenager with ADHD to look after me  :o

In principle getting the long term unemployed doing community work is a good thing, but I dont think it should be forced on them. Otherwise vulnerable people are going to suffer even more - there is enough elderly abuse as it is.

It is a horrible thought that some one who may or may not turn up would be given a job as a carer no matter how small the job.

It is vocational work which not every one can handle, even if it is thrust upon them with a family member there are a lot who can not cope at all with any sort of handicap.

Vulnerable people need protecting from potential abuse and bullying not exposure to it.

Quote from: PurpleHeather on February 26, 2010, 12:48:12
It is a horrible thought that some one who may or may not turn up would be given a job as a carer no matter how small the job.

Don't worry it will never happen. Most of these shirkers (I don't mean temporary or ill) are living on the edge of the law. A police check which is compulsory would nip that idea in the bud. I am not generalising, anybody the dole sent to me against their will when I was foreman were untrustworthy and did not hide the fact, (stops them being offered work). Somebody asking on the off chance of a job usually got given a position if there was one free.

Some of our council gardening work involved the upkeep of open plan gardens on council estates. We had to cut layabouts front gardens because they would not do it themselves. Nine times out of ten when the front was looked after, the bloke was usually gainfully employed. But I would have thought 80% were just idle and working the system with a bit of black market trading on the side. We had to be on out toes, as one seconds distraction and your tools were gone.

 How often do we complain about the state of our streets with litter and dog  nuts everywhere(plus cat nuts in our gardens), if you complain to anyone at the council they do not have the man power to come and clean  up the streets on our neighbourhoods, so get the lazy turds out of their pits and do something for society, OOOooooppp,s  sorry can't do that it's Health&Safety don't have the NVQ, 

Quote from: Mr Smith on February 26, 2010, 18:05:36
How often do we complain about the state of our streets with litter and dog  nuts everywhere(plus cat nuts in our gardens), if you complain to anyone at the council they do not have the man power to come and clean  up the streets on our neighbourhoods, so get the lazy turds out of their pits and do something for society, OOOooooppp,s  sorry can't do that it's Health&Safety don't have the NVQ, 

wouldn't it be easier to prosecute the *fatherless children* who let their dogs foul everywhere? (you know, the ones who work and can afford to own and feed a dog, but don't have the time to clear up the animals nuts?)

Quote from: tonybloke on February 27, 2010, 09:44:10

Quote from: Mr Smith on February 26, 2010, 18:05:36
How often do we complain about the state of our streets with litter and dog  nuts everywhere(plus cat nuts in our gardens), if you complain to anyone at the council they do not have the man power to come and clean  up the streets on our neighbourhoods, so get the lazy turds out of their pits and do something for society, OOOooooppp,s  sorry can't do that it's Health&Safety don't have the NVQ, 

wouldn't it be easier to prosecute the *fatherless children* who let their dogs foul everywhere? (you know, the ones who work and can afford to own and feed a dog, but don't have the time to clear up the animals nuts?)

The people a couple of doors down from me have a german shepard which is not allowed to pee in their garden never mind have a nuts instead they take it to the river bank (50 yards away) & it does it's business under the no fouling sign. The council know exactly who is responsible but can't prosecute them unless they catch them in the act.

Quote from: tonybloke on February 27, 2010, 09:44:10

Quote from: Mr Smith on February 26, 2010, 18:05:36
How often do we complain about the state of our streets with litter and dog  nuts everywhere(plus cat nuts in our gardens), if you complain to anyone at the council they do not have the man power to come and clean  up the streets on our neighbourhoods, so get the lazy turds out of their pits and do something for society, OOOooooppp,s  sorry can't do that it's Health&Safety don't have the NVQ, 

wouldn't it be easier to prosecute the *fatherless children* who let their dogs foul everywhere? (you know, the ones who work and can afford to own and feed a dog, but don't have the time to clear up the animals nuts?)

     Totally agree with the great one 100%, :)

Quote from: Mr Smith on February 27, 2010, 13:47:05

Totally agree with the great one 100%, :)

Yay!!  ;D ;D

Quote from: SMP1704 on February 25, 2010, 21:56:30
A big cheer to Ali the restaurant owner, who was amazingly gracious and even offered waiter boy a free lunch, which he had the cheek to accept ::)

Re the asparagus farm - I'm not sure that I could work at that pace all day and feel well rewarded with an average of £40 p.d. and keep coming back day after day.  The farmer is right, people on benefits cannot easily come off benefits for seasonal work and then pick up benefits when the work ends.

yes, and yes.
Ali the owner was gracious.
I'm very tall, so bending over all day like that would be the last choice on my list of things to do, if I was stuck in a rut like that...I agree with your point though...

oh yes i watched that! It was actually based in the town next to mine  :-[ and unfortunately is very typical of the people in this area!

although i'm on maternity leave and am desperatly seeking night work and cant find any to save my life! (or my house in this case!)