Allotments 4 All

Just thinking about new years resolutions and one thing I would like to do in 2005 is be more environmentally friendly. I am thinking of switching my electricity supplier to one of those that use renewable energy sources. Does anyone here already use a company like this and have any suggestions or advice for me?

Good Un Jesseveve

I am on Juice and heres the link below,

http://www.npower.com/At_home/Juice-clean_and_green.html

you should be able to sign up, even if your leccy isn't comming from renewable sources their commitent is to match your consumption with electricity from renewable sources.. so is good.. if everyone was to sign up.. mahn we would be all using renewables within 5 years.. also saving those bottles and papers and stuff is dead easy as most supermarkets have recycling bins for us to use.. old clothes too.. we done a survey in cardiff for renewable energy.. and most (not all there was the odd one who said "I love nuclear"?)  said they would much prefer to have their energy supply from cleaner/greener renewable energy.. so the call is out there, biggest prob is apathy, whilst most wanted "greener" energy most just sit and wait for it to happen.. and thats not the way.. going off on a tangent here jesseveve.. but last year? 8 peeps from west wales were done for tax evasion on fuel.. they used vegetable oil instead of deisel, there is a process to go thru which escapes me at the moment, but think they add methol to the mixture.. not sure.. but anyway heres a link to running a deilsel car on veggie oil... you are still liable for excise duty... but goes to show that for ages now they have known about cleaner fuel, yet the big bussiness still rules governments.. our farmers are always pleading poverty.. well getting them to grow fuel is an excellent way to solve both the crises in farming and global warming... makes sense..

heres the link

http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=104&i=6545

hope this is of use

all the best

Ciaran/Ozzy

:-* :-* :-*

Thanks Ozzy, will have a proper look tomorrow when I have more time but seems that green energy is no more expensive than what I'm on now. Are there any drawbacks to having green energy, like power cuts or anything like that?

You have a good point about farmers producing energy materials, that would solve a lot of our problems, why has it not been done then, is there some form of conspiracy by the oil industry to not allow this sort of thing happening?

Hi Jesseveve

I certainly think there is a conspiracy going on, who loses out on transport that is powered by rapeseed oil?, the Oil companies,... who gains from the manufacture of cars powered by veggie oil?  all of us including other life forms, governments have known about this for donkeys years, but they are in the pockets of big bussiness.. these cars could have been rolling of the production line over 5 years ago and we would have all brought them... only a big fecky eejit would insist on still using petrol/deisel.. the car companies are now looking at cell powered technology but this is complete tosh, as they are merely creating a smokescreen for what they already know... hydrogen powered cars.. same craic, relies on fossil fuels and nuclear power.. we know the technology is out there for us all to drive greener cars, but only one loser, unfortunately this loser pulls the strings of many governments including our own.. tis food for thought..?

As for Juice... go for it they have a savings calculator too if u also switch gas supplier.. tis good thing to do..

Ozzy

:-* :-* :-*

This is a WICKED intrusional plug - but after 3 Scotches, who cares??

This does NOT answer your question Jesseveve but - for anyone really interested in GREEN - try www.johnelkington.com?? He's been at it for over 3 decades. = Tim

All

For anyone that is interested do a google for bio diesel. Is is on the Continent but not sure about the UK.

Cheers

Mav

Just been to this website to see if it's worth converting my petrol car to LPG gas. Based on my mileage (which is very low) and my make and model of car, the cost of the conversion would be around £2000 and I'd only save about £200 per year by running on LPG. Does anyone know if there is there a government subsidy to cover the cost of a conversion? I don't mind making the conversion but not if it takes me 10 years to pay it off. And does running LPG really make a difference in the Green sense? In other words, is it worth doing it.

www.greenfuel.org.uk

Jesseveve

No it doens't make sense to convert to LPG given that it will take 10 years to pay it off... but thats another smokescreen... why should we the consumer have to fork out money that is to the benefit of everyone?  when all they have to do is mass produce cars that will run off veggie oil?.. they can and would still turn a tidy profit.. the best thing u can do is SHOUT about the current injustice, and riddicule those in "power" to any tom d!ck and harriot about how governments can, if they wanted force through legislation that would provide everybody with cleaner fuel and cleaner air.. tis easy and would end the farming dilemma? in the UK.. tell them in the workplace, in the supermarket down the pub wherever, that an alternative exists.. am reminded about the film "total recall" where the huge con was paying for air.. tis same thing but only on earth and not mars, where I bet the lil green men are just that... eco warriors.. we have had to fight for everything we have now, our lifestyles came from direct protest.. the world we want for our children starts with us and it shouldnt cost us the earth to do the right thang.. people power works, has always worked.. I always send the election candidates packing wiht a flea in their ear I does... who the friar tuck do they think I am to want to vote for more of the same?

don't cause yourself any financial hardship jesseveve, is not the way and can have a negative effect on a very possitive idea/inclination you have.. u can convert your car if its deisel to run on veg oil for around 600 quid, nice if u can afford it.. but we should all be able to buy these cars already as they have the technology and the resourses to mass produce, but it all comes down to that 3 letter word OIL and our apathy about not protesting.. mahn we should have a fuel strike again, but this time against the use of petrol/deisel.. don't let them fob u off with LPG etc is bolucs, peacefull safe protest is best, so dont go getting any ideas about running under the queens horsey at cheltenham lol.. handcuffing yourself to Prescotts 2 jaguars however may prove effective :)

right off me soapbox now I iz :)

Ozzy/Ciaran

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

peeps before profit


heres the edit... just a thought.. but what if peeps did blockade garages and refused to buy new cars in August when the new reg plates come out, insisting on buying cars that run on veggie oil?? would send the right message.. and the only peeps that stop this from happening is us... just a thought  :-*

I don't know if anyone else saw the same Open University programme many years ago but Malmo in Sweden in the '50s became one of the most environmentally friendly place in Europe.

They organised an energy system which involved the whole city.  They took everyone's waste and used it to power an electricity plant.  Absolutely everything was used which provided all the power needed for every household, all due to the householders themselves, not to mention every local industrial firm.  If you managed to contribute extra waste, you were given credit!  There was only two months a year that they needed to supplement this by coal - what an achievement!

I have never understood why other countries/towns/cities didn't learn from this.  Now, it is all down to a question of money and politics.  It has been proven that it works!

I didn't see the prog Mudz but am minded oooer that there is nothing we cant grow to sustain us, can grow material for making clothes and shoes not only food, hell I even have the abilty to grow glass and rocks.. every year I always get glass in me veg bed, tiss a serious weed and well hard to shift.. having said this have just realised that we cant grow spaceships, and believe me it aint for the want of trying either. but maybe we could???? a nice wee spacecraft made of hemp fueled on sunflower oil.. is total intergalitic eco warriorism so it is.. would however have to insist on using Bridgestone tyres cus they is well good in the wet weather, so not total eco... unless i used natural sponge for tyres, reckon they wood be well good in the rain, but maybe not so good when ur flying over stonehenge on summer soltice.. but if u incorporated a wee sprinkler system that would moisten ur sponge wheels, then whey hey...

heres a pic of me in me early days.. okay ship aint eco freindly and runs on imaginary nuclear fuel, but its all we had then... btw... me bold head??? star trek the next generation... jean-luc???? they nicked the idea of having a sexy bold headed pothead as captain of the enterprise of me so they did... this pic was taken long befor star trek next gen and wtf I am babbling.. tis 2005 already and would like to say happy easter peeps now that new years day thang is dun and dusted.. 2cd babble alert.. almost forgot me pic...



Ozzy/Ciaran

:-* :-* :-*

Hi!

This is something that I was looking at also and thought I would share this site
http://www.greenenergy.uk.com/
which is a new company offering green energy.  They are giving away shares in the company with each new customer so if they do get big then you get a share of the profits for being supportive in the early stages.  Might be worth a look but I have not used them so cannot recommend them personally.

Piglit

In an effort to curry favour with Iowa farmers, and gain their vote in that states vital caucases prior to the general election, political candidates often mention subsidising the production of corn dedicated to processing into ethanol, a bio fuel.
It has been pointed out however that in between growing the crop and processing it into fuel requires the input of 131,000 btu's of energy per gallon of recoverable fuel. This energy input is derived almost entirely from fossil fuels. The energy recovered from a gallon of ethanol is 71,000 btu's (these figures come from work done by Professor David Pimenthal, an agricultural ecologist at Cornell University). Consequently the only winners from this form of bio fuel would be..... Big Oil! Indeed, about 10 minutes into this programme: http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2005/01/20050106_b_main.asp
a far greater expense of energy is claimed. It would not surprise me if there are comparable energy expenses involved in the production of other bio fuels as methods of cultivation involved are not that different for many crops (although if someone could point be me in to a reference that proves me wrong I would be thankful). 
Obviously the implication is that all that is claimed to be green needs some very detailed cost analysis. 

Pity it's so hard to be green! = Tim

Multi tasking. Probably in Europe too and possibly a way to save family farms everywhere, judging by this farmers estimates.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6838687/

One been running down in Devon for a couple of years now, seems to be OK.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2135431.stm

Jerry

Could you clarify a couple of points for me though? Here in Vermont the farmer is getting paid for the electricity as a finished value added product- these articles do not make it clear if that is happening in the U.K., I assume from the set up they are not. Indeed it doesn't mention if the farmers are being paid for the manure, as a resource, or have to pay for it to be removed as a service by the company. Additionally, do they have to buy back their manure once the electricity generator has finished with it? With so many U.K. farmers struggling to make a living, or even just break even, any change in expenses or income could be quite critical.
The problem I alluded to with bio-diesel (negative energy savings) occurs because the bio mass comes from non-point sources and has to be moved to a central location for processing. This takes fuel obviously. Do you know if this scheme, with it's centralised production, and then re-distribution of the manure, suffers from the same problem? In the Vermont scheme the waste product never leaves the farm. With these questions I'm not trying to imply that the Vermont scheme is better but I am trying to ascertain how much difference to a farmers bottom line and it's 'green' advantages the U.K. scheme has.

Just thought I'd point you to this website for Green Energy

You'll notice that juics from npower isn't actually anywhere near the best you could choose green wise.  I'm on Juice though, but simply because I can't afford the greener options.  Which makes me feel very guilty.

Did anyone see the program about carbon footprints a while ago?  Well, if you google carbon footprint there are a few websites where you can work out your own carbon footprint, and what you can do to offset the carbon.  If everyone worked to offset their carbon emissions then maybe global warming would be halted.

My new years resolution was to avoid giving my money to supermarkets, and to buy locally where-ever possible.  I feel like I'm fighting a loosing battle though  :-\

Quote from: john_miller on January 29, 2005, 19:32:06
Could you clarify a couple of points for me though? Here in Vermont the farmer is getting paid for the electricity as a finished value added product- these articles do not make it clear if that is happening in the U.K., I assume from the set up they are not. Indeed it doesn't mention if the farmers are being paid for the manure, as a resource, or have to pay for it to be removed as a service by the company. Additionally, do they have to buy back their manure once the electricity generator has finished with it? With so many U.K. farmers struggling to make a living, or even just break even, any change in expenses or income could be quite critical.
The problem I alluded to with bio-diesel (negative energy savings) occurs because the bio mass comes from non-point sources and has to be moved to a central location for processing. This takes fuel obviously. Do you know if this scheme, with it's centralised production, and then re-distribution of the manure, suffers from the same problem? In the Vermont scheme the waste product never leaves the farm. With these questions I'm not trying to imply that the Vermont scheme is better but I am trying to ascertain how much difference to a farmers bottom line and it's 'green' advantages the U.K. scheme has.

John, happy too.

The farmers are paid for their manure/slurry. There is also an option to forsake payment for manure but take a profit share instead. This follows the model used with some success in mainland Europe for some years now.

The buy product, slurry residue or sludge is then returned to the farms that want it or sold on.  The south west of pretty well set up for slurry sludge in fact. There are a number of human sewage digesters in the region that process sewage in biological digesters. This results in a thick black odourless (nearly) sludge that is given to farmers for spreading on the ground or injected into the ground for a small extra fee. We have been using this sludge for over 20 years on my parent’s farm. (Our farm is too far away from the new power plant to participate being on the South Coast of Devon.)

Most farms taking part in this scheme are within 10 miles of the plant, so there is some carbon use to get the raw material to the plant and return the by products but the final product, electricity can at least be fed into the national grid for very little carbon expenditure. Still not perfect but better than fossil fuel solutions I expect.

One thing we are looking at on the farm from a green energy front though is growing Elephant Grass, Miscanthus, for a purpose built power station in Devon.

http://www.bical.co.uk/

This has certain other advantages other than green energy, especially on the wild life management front that are of interest to us as well.

One problem with European farming and schemes such as this is that currently margins are very low in agriculture generally. The use of subsidies and incentives over the last 40 years has dictated how farming has developed, Europe wide rules do not and can never fit all countries so some have done far better out of it than others, especially the French, Germans and Italians.

As a result such green energy schemes find it hard to take off as it requires significant investment from the farmers to reach a critical mass enable profits to be generated. No profits, no re-investment, no long term viability. Agricultural support payments reform is starting to help this happen but it wont be very quick. We are looking at may be growing 100 acres of miscanthus, this will result in a drop of farm income of about 50% for 3 or 4 years but they should then improve.

The big question which means we have not taken the leap yet is: Is there a future for the power plant that means it is still there in 10 years time demanding our product?

That question, as yet, cannot be answered by the company or the government meaning we cannot take the risk at this point in time.

Jerry