Allotments 4 All

Hello, we have cleared about 2/3 of our new allotment ready for planting but the remaining 1/3 is too much for this year, we have cleared off the surface weeds/grass but some bramble stubs remain. I would like to cover either with black weed supressant fabric or a mulch I have seen on Harrod horti website called Strulch - link here

http://www.harrodhorticultural.com/HarrodSite/search/product/Caring+for+Nature_Organic+Plant+Feeding/GFE-340.htm

I would prefer the strulch as it is organic and can be dug in, lasts for a couple of years and is not plastic which I detest but do you think this strulch stuff will be enough for the weeds and brambles to die off underneath?

Help much appreciated!!

Thank you!   ???

I believe 'strulch' is just composted straw, so I think the brambles will come through that no problem at all. Digging the bramble roots out is really tireosme but worth it, even then they will try and come back given half a chance! Black plastic or membrane is not very attractive I agree but will do the job, and you can get around the look of it by planting a few pumpkins or other squash in holes through the plastic, their foliage will smother it quite quickly, and you will get a bonus of some pumpkins too!

hiya, reddyreddy, welcome to a4a  ;D
another vote for plastic here, and if you can get your hands on some really thick cardboard put the plastic over it, the card will rot down and kill the weeds too  :)

hi reddyreddy, another vote here for black plastic, preferably over 
cardboard, news paper any green waste you can get, and then pumpkins/winter squash.

welcome to A4A

lbb

what about fresh horse manure (sadly none rotted down) underneath or will that just feed the weeds?

I don't see why fresh manure (uncontaminated manure that is - search contaminated manure in the search pages if you aren't sure what i am on about) can't be used in an area you don't plan on cultivating for a year by the time you get round to using the area it would have rotted down with the worms turning everything into a lovely crumbly texture and the weeds if aren't dead would be weakend by trying to grow in a lightless and mainly water less environment so would be easier to dig out, etc.

good luck with any decision you choose i also hate the use of plastic but bramble if left for a year under something that breaks down easily would be through it before you could say blackberry :).

I used this from B&Q:-

http://nextday.diy.com/app/jsp/product/productPage.jsp?productId=22842

OK, it is plastic and not pretty but does the job.   6 months later and the weeds are dead.  Means I can get on with the rest of the plot whilst one area takes care of itself.

Recently uncovered one area and moved the plastic to another neglected patch which I will come back to later.  Once I have finished I could always give it to another newbie so recycling it....

Quote from: Kendy on March 16, 2009, 09:45:21
Recently uncovered one area and moved the plastic to another neglected patch which I will come back to later.  Once I have finished I could always give it to another newbie so recycling it....

thats a good idea and point you made there, if its taken care of you can pass it on to someone else or even use it to warm patches of cultivated soil for early planting in spring times ahead.

Thanks, the link looks like regular very thick plastic - I was going to buy the permeable stuff so water and air can circulate just no light - comments please!!!  :D

It is very thick - no light or water will get through to feed the weeds !

I would put down a layer of thick card or newspapers then cover with an 8" thick layer of organic matter such as manure. Very little will grow through a mulch that thick. Any annual weeds that start growing on the surface will be easy to remove. If you like squash they will grow well on the mulch layer.
When you dig it over next winter the mulch will of broken down & a lot of it will of been incorporated into the soil below making it easier to dig over, any remaining bramble roots will be easily removed.

someone will correct me if I'm wrong here but my experience with bramble is if they get even the slightest toe hold they would push and push till they a through then grow all over your weed suppressant, so i would be more inclined to lay a solid sheeting rather than a permeable one. i would also wait till the ground had a good soaking before covering it so at least the soil started off wet/ damp. don't forget anything under plastic will rot down into lovely organic material and produce some liquid so the ground should then remain fairly moist/ damp which should be beneficial to the organisms under it, the only problem is lack of air flow ???.

Quote from: Baccy Man on March 16, 2009, 10:07:14
I would put down a layer of thick card or newspapers then cover with an 8" thick layer of organic matter such as manure. Very little will grow through a mulch that thick. Any annual weeds that start growing on the surface will be easy to remove. If you like squash they will grow well on the mulch layer.
When you dig it over next winter the mulch will of broken down & a lot of it will of been incorporated into the soil below making it easier to dig over, any remaining bramble roots will be easily removed.

8 inches is certainly very thick and would certainly work. i have foxes in my area who think i lay cardborad for them to dig up >:( drives me blooming crazy ::).

if I went for the manure and non permeable plastic how long do you think it would take? one area is bramble stubs and one area is just grass remnants. thanks!!

Sounds like my sons plot........6 months to a year I reckon! ;D

Aaaagh, just read this and aminopyralid posts. The manure is from the horse field next door, will ask if they ever weedkill but I had bought 3 bags of organic rotted stable manure from garden centre - if it's organic is it ok??? :o

Quote from: thifasmom on March 16, 2009, 09:42:18
I don't see why fresh manure (uncontaminated manure that is - search contaminated manure in the search pages if you aren't sure what i am on about)

Quote from: reddyreddy on March 16, 2009, 10:38:55
Aaaagh, just read this and aminopyralid posts. The manure is from the horse field next door, will ask if they ever weedkill but I had bought 3 bags of organic rotted stable manure from garden centre - if it's organic is it ok??? :o

Quote from: thifasmom on March 16, 2009, 09:42:18
I don't see why fresh manure (uncontaminated manure that is - search contaminated manure in the search pages if you aren't sure what i am on about)

i have read somewhere that a few people were affected by organically sourced manure in the form you bought it so it is a possibility, if you are worried maybe you could use it with plants that aren't susceptible to the herbicide like squash, there are a few others but I'm no authority on the subject (more searching should bring you up to speed) there is no guarantee that the vegetables are safe to eat so it would be a personal choice on whether you were happy to eat your produce or not re contaminated manure but in the end i would simply say do as much research and arm yourself with knowledge then make your best choices that sits right with you.

I found Strulch good for suppressing most things but not bramble. Does have the advantage of being slower than straw to rot down and then can be dug in to improve water retention.

If you do want to buy some Strulch you've a fair chance of finding it cheaper somewhere other than HH.

The stuff at the link Kendy supplied looks like it then - do you think I can plant through it?

The stuff Kendy linked to is non-pourous DPC sheeting it will exclude air & moisture as well as light which will kill the microbial organisms essential for heathy soil in addition to the weeds.
The other potential problem is that plastic even high quality UV stabilised stuff tends to go brittle & crumbles into millions of little pieces which are a nightmare to remove, I am still removing fragments of black plastic & synthetic carpet from my plot 9 years after taking it on even though I have never used either.

 
   I would say,  to use permiable membrane as a short term cover as I have just

   sorted a length of garden that had PM underlying old shrubs, a nightmare as the

   brambles had taken a hold under the cover and had come up through to the surface --

   they are very strong !

   Would say , the only way is to dig them out,   trace the roots as deep as you can - and cut !

    I go the organic way, but whatever is best for you,    ;D

    floss xxx