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As subject. Can you grow them on beds that have had manure on top and then dug in after say 3mnths. I've read that when you plant them if you put lime at the bottom of the hole it highers the pH away from acid as they prefer neutral to alkaline. Also if you dip them in a lime water/ mixture it helps regards avoiding club root . I'm told that lime and manure can create ammonia but i presume it means fresh manure? :-\

sorry, compo,can't help with this one, we put compost on our cabbage beds and lime into the hole and around the plant 'cos of club root..someone will be along soon  :)

QuoteCan you grow them on beds that have had manure on top and then dug in after say 3months.

Do you mean the manure is dug  in ? or is it still on top and you plan on digging it in in three months time?

QuoteI've read that when you plant them if you put lime at the bottom of the hole it highers the pH away from acid as they prefer neutral to alkaline.

It is one way but I don't believe in lime coming in direct contact with young seedling roots. Might be a tad hot for them.

But then again many do do it this way perhaps their advice would be different from mine.

QuoteAlso if you dip them in a lime water/ mixture it helps regards avoiding club root .

It may help but it is so diluted I am not sure if it does much good. I use Armillatox

QuoteI'm told that lime and manure can create ammonia but i presume it means fresh manure?

Quite right!

This is how I prepare my soil; http://tinyurl.com/284po8

and this s how I plant my brassicas; http://tinyurl.com/33loso

There are many plot holders on our site that put garden lime in and around the hole they are planting their brassicas in.

They swear by it and say it helps deter clubroot.

Aren't rhubarb leaves underneath the seedlings meant to work in much the same way as lime would?

 (quote.) TeeGee .  manure put on top 3mnths ago now have dug it in. (quote.)

QuoteTeeGee .  manure put on top 3mnths ago now have dug it in.

Well in that case why not do as I do add the lime after planting out.

As a few others now know I find that by doing it this way, it gives you another benefit.............slugs don't seem to cross the lime barrier meaning your seedlings are protected (at least from slugs & snails) and the lime slowly weathers in to the soil and around the new emerging root system.

Whereas putting it under the plant suggests to me that all the new roots above the base of the plant are not lime treated, even if you dip the plant/s in lime water.

But the choice is yours!

Bumping this from lond ago Tee gee.

I know somewhere I have seen your description for adding lime after you plant brassicas but I can't find it....help. I seem to picture a white line grid around them. My soil was new from the deliverer 2 years ago so we are still working on it. I want to give them the best chance I can.. Kale grew last year but it doesn't seem to be as fussy.

XX Jeannine

it takes alot of lime just to reduce the ground by half a unit every year on a new brassica bed 15ftx20ft i put around 30 kg of garden lime then lightly hoe it into the surface then as i plant drop a little into the hole  i have very sandy neutral soil however brassicas really love it and no club root at all very rare on our site so i would put lime down anyway but it might help if you bought a ph testing kit just incase your soil is alkali anyway its cheaper than lime lol hope this helps

Just noticed this is an eight year thread so you went back a fair bit Jeannine!

Here is a bit of info on Lime

http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Data/Lime%20and%20its%20uses/Lime%20and%20its%20uses.htm

And this on how I use it:

http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Data/Brassica%20planting/brassica%20planting.html

Hey Tee Gee, thank you so much, I just knew I had seen that white grid, was it really 8 years ago? It just goes to show you that bumping an old thread a good idea, I would bet there are a lot of newbies who would benefit from that. Now one question, how close dare I go, bearing in mind I am aiming for  mini veggies, caulis, cabbages, broc etc oh and I have a smaller brussel variety too. I don't have much space so every inch counts.

Johnny, thank you too, I do have a PH kit somewhere I should use it I guess. The soil in my raised beds was supposed to be 6.5 according to the company that delivered it. My son in law made my 2 foot high raised beds and we had a truck load of soil delivered to fill them all, it is very sandy.

XX Jeannine

QuoteNow one question, how close dare I go, bearing in mind I am aiming for  mini veggies, caulis, cabbages, broc etc oh and I have a smaller brussel variety too. I don't have much space so every inch count

I always work on a 15" grid  375mm if you are metric.

I have tried various centres over the years and this is the one I find suits me best.

My beds are roughly 5' 6" wide so I get four plants across the bed.

I find at these centres the plants support each other for example:

Low plants such as caulies and cabbage form a nice cup shape and in the case of caulies the curds are easy to cover from bright light.

With taller  plants such as sprouts the leaves intertwine and support each other during early growth,then when the sprouts form in the leaf axils these push the leaves off and you end up with nice vertical stalks of spiralling sprouts.

I found out years ago when the pundits would say 18-24" apart caused me all sort of problems so I experimented with the closer planting pattern and it worked.

I also find that these settings give virtually full ground cover meaning that they act as weed suppressor due to screening out the light.

Then when you consider the beds are quite narrow I find I do not have to tread on them after I have planted out so I can harvest from either side of the bed.

Plus when I place my bird netting over the beds  my hoops and nets do not need to be too wide and they are easier to fit than they would be if the beds were quite wide.

Then as you would have seen in the slide show I use a bulb planter to form the planting out so this means I am not planting into loose soil, and as you know brassicas like quite firm soil so this is my method to achieve this.

When I lift my plants after harvesting the root ball is about the same size as a large dinner plate which also fits in with my 15" centres.

Now you know how I do it the choice is yours if you want to follow suit!....Tg

Edit: Forgot to mention Leeks I still put my rows in at 15" apart and around 8" (200mm) between the plants along the row.

Another benefit I get from 15" between rows is it is quite easy to hoe plus  I can get my 12" wide rake between the rows to rake of weed detritus.

I am getting confused . Is the issue that the manure has been left on the surface and then recently dug in or is it trying to avoid club root ?
I have had bad experiences with the former and have had poor brassica crops because they do not like fresh manure and 3 months is fresh. I now generally only use manure in potatoes and then follow the following year with brassicas or onions.
As regards club root I have tried everything - Jeyes Fluid, Armillatox, Lime, Rhubarb. I have done a fair bit of investigation on the subject of Club Root and have come to the conclusion that all brassicas need a good root ball so I transplant mine into cardboard pots from the £1 shops and let them grow BIG before I transplant them onto the allotment. Also I now only grow Club Root resistant varieties and they are widely available for all brassicas. By using these varieties I am 95% successful they are not cheap but they do work.

 Tee Gee as always I get a super answer from you. My biggest problem I think will be that my soil is quite loose and sandy, I stomp it down but that is the best I can do. Thank you again, sometimes I don't know how we all manage without your help and your plot is a wonderful goal to aim for. The Benchmark so to speak!!

XX Jeannine

Quote from: Jeannine on April 11, 2016, 20:54:20
My biggest problem I think will be that my soil is quite loose and sandy, I stomp it down but that is the best I can do.

Try using a bulb planter and puddling them in like I describe in my slide show this is the best and most natural method I know for compacting the soil.

Flooding them like that effectively creates a similar effect of hours and hours of rain pounding the soil and compacting the soil.

Definitely better than the soft shoe ( or should that be boot) shuffle that you are doing.

Thanks Tee Gee, I will do that..actually the footwear  is only Birkenstocks but there is 230 lbs of weight behind them.