Who keeps the paperwork - treasurer

[Grubend]

Hi, I have just taken over as allotment secretary at our local allotment site and we have a problem with the ex-treasurer and the new treasurer.  What I would like help on is who keeps the paperwork?

The previous treasurer arranged for the accounts to be audited and these were circulated at the recent AGM, however, she will not hand over any of the receipts etc that she received during her time as treasurer.  The new treasurer has been given the bank books and is now a signatory but that is all he has.

Who is right here? Our chairman wants all the paperwork as he says it belongs to the Association but the previous treasurer is refusing to hand it over.  Do we just need a copy of the audited accounts?  At the end of the day the auditors have checked that everything is above board.
Helllllppppp

[Grubend]

[Beersmith]

I'm sure someone with suitable expertise will provide a reply in due course.  But the application of simple logic suggests the old treasurer is in the wrong. How can any documents, financial or otherwise, relating to the business of the allotment association committee be the personal property of an individual rather than belonging to the committee as a group?

Commonsense aside, proving and enforcing that may not be so easy. I'll be following this topic with interest. Has the former treasurer explained why they are taking this view?

[BarriedaleNick]

The old treasurer is in the wrong here but it doesn't really matter is the accounts are finalised.  The receipts etc are meaningless once the accounts have been audited but the old treasurer is just being an arse as they do belong to the association.

[Pescador]

Just seems a bit fishy to me. Why would someone not hand them over if there isn't something to hide?
I thought physical evidence had to be kept for 5 years, but maybe that's no longer true.

[Plot 18]

I'd also be wondering what she doesn't want anyone else to see. I know the accounts been finalised but doesn't that just mean that they balanced at audit, I don't think that means that everything was as agreed by the association.

[Obelixx]

They belong to the Association and not to any individual regardless of their current or former position.

[picman]

I was an allotment treasurer , all the records , everything from the last 5 years , Bank statements , receipt books, invoices , petty cash records. etc etc. they should be handed over to the incoming treasurer , If he / she wont then not sure what recourse you have , you may need legal advice.

[ACE]

Tell them they can have them back after the new treasurer has copied them. If it is still a no then something is amiss and wants looking into.

[nodig]

The receipts would be handy, then you would be able to see what the money was spent on rather than a column of meaningless figures on an audit sheet.  I don't think an auditor is particularly interested in why an allotment association bought 5 pairs of panties from primark, but I am sure the members would like to know.

[picman]

An audit costs £££ , an examination ,less so should be possible for the association to check with the person who signed the accounts off ..

[galina]

The old treasurer has chucked them by mistake and now can't produce them and is too proud to admit having been that stupid.  Unless there was bad blood and he felt forced out and therefore stopped being cooperative, just digging in his little heels out of 'principle'.  Just speculating here of course, but the truth could be a simple thingy-up or a grudge. 

[Bill Door]

Yes Galina could be right.  Might be "a quiet talk over a coffee on neutral ground" time to get to the bottom (or acceptably close) of it.  Of course the one person that goes, probably the chair person, should leave their shovel and digging fork at home, and be careful not to get a sugar rush.

Bill

[squeezyjohn]

I've found that in cases like this, people are very rarely wilfully deceptive, and allowing yourself to think most people are is more likely to damage you than it is to help the situation.  However, people are very often swamped by life, out of their depth, getting things wrong, leaving everything to the last minute and then covering up for their mistakes if they get caught out, people are proud and would rather lie than admit they couldn't cope.  I've certainly been there - and it's more of a mental health issue than criminal activity.

This sort of thing happens more often in voluntary positions than in the rest of life.  Clearly - this paperwork should be the property of the organisation ... my advice is to tread softly and not threaten anything drastic if information is missing, but appeal to their better nature in a friendly way.  That is far more likely to lead to something being forthcoming than any kind of legal threat which will probably make them clam up even more.

[Grubend]

Hi everyone,
Nothing dishonest from our previous treasurer - she's above board.  However, we have a Chairman who is not the most honest of folk.

Her reason for keeping it is that she has to keep it for the 5 years rather than pass it on.

I think I will get in contact with NSALG and get the legal stand point.

thanks for all your comments, much appreciated.

[Beersmith]

I like the saying"sunshine is the best disinfectant".  If everyone can easily see what is happening it is very difficult to get away with any cheating. Earlier, someone suggested making copies. This is an excellent idea. You would do well to implement it from here in. Receipt held by treasurer, copy placed in committee files, open to all.

[Borlotti]

Voluntary work is a pain, been there done it, all people who do no work complain.  I would rather have a paid job and at least you get paid and appreciated.

[Digeroo]

Never heard of anyone keeping information.  It belongs to the association and should be handed back.   Perhaps the old treasurer thinks she is supposed to keep it.  What happened to the previous stuff.  Sounds like a misunderstanding. 

[johhnyco15]

I like the saying"sunshine is the best disinfectant".  If everyone can easily see what is happening it is very difficult to get away with any cheating. Earlier, someone suggested making copies. This is an excellent idea. You would do well to implement it from here in. Receipt held by treasurer, copy placed in committee files, open to all.

i agree, as site manager i copy all receipts i keep a leger and running total every year the originals are given to the treasurer with the ledger and i have the copies in case any go missing this seems to work as everyone knows i have my own records it reassures plot holders that there is no foul play with there hard earned fees

[nodig]

I suppose most people don't care if the treasurer loses receipts or the chairman fiddles a bit as long as the rents don't go up too much and the site is well managed - there has to be some perks for having to attend all those boring meetings.

[picman]

I suppose most people don't care if the treasurer loses receipts or the chairman fiddles a bit 

Really ?  Our turnover was around £5000 a year , I balanced to the penny ...