The challenge of starting with an over grown plot

[Fids]

Good morning Everyone,

Just returned from my newly acquired plot with a sense of frustration as it is so wet. The plot is clay soil and dominated by buttercups and docks. The clocks have gone back so my only time now will be at weekends to get a 70 x 20 feet plot dug.

Is there any benefit in me covering parts of the plot with plastic etc. to make the weeds die back. Also will the die back kill off the roots as well.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Fids

[Fids]

[gavin]

Hi Fids - know how you feel  ;D !

I took on a VERY heavy clay plot in summer, heavily overgrown, and have only really started working it now.

If yours is anything like mine, the weeds are unable to get beyond the first 2-3 inches of the soil; BUT turning it over will drown 'em - as long as the weed cover goes deep!  And the frost will get to the clods and break them down into a "tilth" for you over winter.

Dunno - it's my first time on such soil, but the older lads around me tell me it works.  

So I'm just cutting off the top growth, and digging my beds in a U pattern - dig north for about 7 metres, turn round and dig south for the same.  

Dig a trench - maybe five spades-width "wide", one spade "long"; lift the clods (....... bricks) out of the way (I'll trim the weed cover off the top, and use them to fill my last trench).  Then dig the next trench, in thin 3-4 inch slices; and turn them into the empty trench.  Get the right rhythm, and it should be a simple - drive spade in, twist and turn, so the top weed cover slips and falls to the bottom of previous trench, and "soil" is at the top.

Every so often, (every five rows?) I cut the turf off, and pile on the ompost heap, and pile the clay "bricks" underneath on the stuff I've dug, so I've always got an empty trench to fill.

Dig to end of the bed, and start a five-spade trench going back again;  by this time you'll be back where you started, and the very first clods you took out will fill the last trench?

Sorry - it's hard to describe in words; it's taken me a lot of time and back-ache to find a rhythm that works for this kind of soil ----- but once you do, what a difference it makes!

Good luck - Gavin

[Andy H]

To Markyb23
Reading that lot, I cant seem to work out who offended you??? ???

[mitzzy]

HI Fids

I have just about cleared my plot but i have taken about 3 months just to up lift the weeds .
Nothing has been grown on plot for last few years maybe even 6 years .

My next plan is to build raised beds and make site a bit more level .
I also have manure to spread over plot .I do an hour of digging at a time so i don't become over tired or hurt my back .
I went to the local council dump and got carpet to cover over ground .

Good luck

Mags

[windygale]

Hi Fids,i've just taken on an allotment 6/7 weeks ago and have a lot of the same problems myself, my advise is (like i was told ) double dig the plot and clean any weeds as you go, adding as much manure or compost as you can while digging, some people say placing black plastic on the ground stop's weeds from growing and help heat up the ground for planting in spring and you can grow through the plastic all year round,black plastic will not kill all roots but you 'll find that most of the weed roots will grow to the top and you'll beable to pull them up and burn them, it may help by adding some grit or gravel to break up the soil and help with drainage,
But take your time, if you cant dig it cover it with mulch and dig it next year,
rotate your crop's and have a three/four year turn around,and build a compost heap,
hope this help's.
windy

[jamie]

Tried to find some photos when I took on an allotment for the first time, haven't managed it yet. Covering with plastic or carpet is a good temporary measure, although the weeds wont grow too much over the winter. My advice is to spade dig, keeping the clods of earth as large as possible, winter will freeze the water particles, the thawing/then freezing process will then naturally break down the soil ready for the spring (although we don't get many frost in the South). Certainly worth removing any of the deep rooted weeds at this time. If you can get any delivery of well rotted manure then get as much of it as you can afford. I would normally just spread it around. If you have the time then single/double dig, although I've never done this. If you have clay soil I've used Chichester grit and sprinkle it over the soil, although it does cost (sand maybe a cheaper alternative). If the ground hasn't been used for a few years then my advice is to grow potatoes, as you need to dig the soil a number of times during the growing season (once to prepare, then to earth up and finally to harvest). For clay soils you need to break up the soil with compost/straw/Cichester grit/sand etc, if you don't then you will just be modelling it. Early expense/effort will pay dividends for the years ahead. It is also worth spending some time edging the plot and measuring it out in bite sized chunks and staking the divisions. I used 8ft by plot width (29/30 ft)  chunks. This way you can divide up the plot for easy crop rotation if you are not going to go the deep bed method.

Jamie

[Andy H]

Interesting all the varying methods. My plot hadn`t been used for 5 years. we cleared weeds and single dug before rotivating,although I know this was bad,it did save time to get plot underway. 100 black sacks of mushroom compost and roti in made the ground very easy to manage. Alas all the weeds sprang up but were easy to just pull up apart from those orrible thistles which over time we are getting out,hopefully all of it each time.
Don`t weeds grow well! >:(

Great crops though.

On our 2nd plot it had been used well and covered in carpet and no weeds when we lifted them, but the weeds come back after time. I don`t think you can ever beat them but learn from other peoples methods in the easy way to deal with them, one thing I think is certain, it takes consistency. They plot cant be left for 3 weeks cos will be covered in weeds. Maybe alot of this is from other plots " going to seed"?

Of course, I think manure has a few seeds in it from what the horses ate etc but a stable/farm heap that has rotted well was probably a big heap and got fairly hot in the middle so most of it will be good.
Interesting what other people may think on this?

Weeds in compo??? Never quite sure and don`t want to remove to much "mud" from the plot by dumping it...?

[Moggle]

I too, have just taken on an overgrown plot, I think it has been uncultivated for 3-5 years, and it is clay, and this weekend, half was wet and muddy, and the other half was dry and baked. Half of plot has been covered in plastic for quite some time, and then burned off. Other half has just been strimmed by site secretary, and I have put down some black plastic in the hope that it will all go away - or at least be more manageable.

Still managed to get half a bed dug roughly- maybey 4ft by width of plot  - 30 ft. I have staked out and marked a couple of beds, and will do the rest when I have more stakes and string.

I am lucky and will probably be able to get a big load of leafmould for the plot free.

Want to try some green manure on some of it too, just deciding on the exact process to use to get the green manure sown.

Gavin, your technique sounds good, I will probably try to use that, thanks for sharing - mostly made sense to me  :)

[Sarah-b]

Thought I'd add my tuppence worth.
Basically all I can add to what has been said so far is a very big "GOOD LUCK FIDS" and also emphasise the advice about edgings.

What happens is, you clear the weeds and do the digging and the bit you have done looks great, then around May all the weeds start growing again and you will have exposed loads of weed seeds that have just been lying around dormant for years. At this point, don't lose heart. Stand your ground, look after the edges and keep hoeing the weeds down. Use mulches where you can around your plants to suppress the weeds. The mad weed growing season does not keep going all summer - it just seems to get off to an early start.
I'd also emphasise the "don't do it all at once" point. You can grow an awful lot in a small space (if you get the chance, have a look at Joy Larkhom's "Creative Vegetable Growing").  

Don't know what I'm doing even attempting to give advice though, we have one and a half plots and don't seem to find any time to dig. The dark nights have really thrown us - cos it means all digging has to take place at the weekend, and in the summer I was able to really keep on top of things by visiting the plots in the evening. Have several totally out of contrlo patches and we're just leaving them covered with black plastic until we have the time to think about it.

Sarah-b

[Moggle]

Well I've done some googleing Fids, and apparently clay can be one of the most fertile soils, once you get it cultivated and some organic matter in to it. The clay holds on to moisture better, and also nutrients. So it's not all bad, just a bit of hard work at the start  :-\

[Fids]

Thanks everyone for their advice.
Please feel to add if you have any further ideas or e mail me.

Happy growing Fids

[micsmum]

I agree with Sarah B about looking after the edges to keep the weeds at bay. Son (10 years bless him) have really got cracking the past few weekends on the plotty. Heavy clay, especially on one side, disised for several years, on a slope and all perrennial weeds rotavated in by the council in January. Have dug the old potato bed into four downward-running plots and several smaller beds on the patch below. So far we have kept the weeds at bay on these by hoeing and re-edging with an edging spade. Michael and I spent 4 hours on Saturday and over six hours on Sunday up there (mind you the plot is right near the house) and now the poor kid is off with a stinking head cold!!
Helen

[Andy H]

Why are the edges so important ???

[Sarah-b]

Andy - I suppose the edges are only important if your paths consist of grass and weeds. If you don't keep control of the edges, byt the end of the growing season, you have lost about a foot of more of your veg bed to encroachments from the damm weeds.
I know, because yesterday I spent 2 hours reclaiming part of one border back from the path - and it was amazing how big the bed was when I'd finished.

If you haven't got nice edges, it is worth sort of piling the soil up a bit away from the path, so you have a sort of gulley between the top of the bed and the top of the path (if you see what I mean) - this way, it is harder for the weeds to get accross the "gap".

Don't you have this trouble Andy? -Do you have nice edges? ;)

Sarah.

[Mrs Ava]

I like good edges on my plot, even with all the weeds and stones, neat edges make the plot look so tidy!  And I agree with you Sarah, if you don't keep those edges cut back, before you know it you have started to loose valuable growing space.  Mind you, I do get a bi carried away and probably pinch more of the path than I should......between me and my neighbour there is only a narrow pathway as we both want that extra couple of inches for that extra beetroot or cabbage!  I to have a gully, find it slows weeds and grasses progress into my growing area and that is where I chuck all of the stones.  In some places, I almost have cobble paths!

[micsmum]

 ;D ;D ;D..I swear by my edges and the gullies! Mind you I musn't get too carried away tidying them up otherwise I' be doing a tightrope walking impression between the beds!!!

[Andy H]

yes I did do the edges for the judging! I remember grandads "grow for victory" garden had good edges. I wondered if that was the reason.

Amazing how good the rubbish grows! Perhaps we should search for recipes including grass and bindweed and thistle soup! :-\

[gavin]

What do you do with the edges?  Trim 'em with shears, or chop with a spade.  Work, yet more work?

Ah but, what hides in the edges?  What lays eggs in the edges?  SLUGS.  Stuff the work element - this is now sheer pleasure!   ;D ;D ;D

All best - Gavin

PS Lifted what I thought was a chunk of rotten polystyrene from my digging today - but it wasn't.  A huge clump of slug eggs - yeuk!  Ah well - the robins enjoyed it :-)

[Andy H]

miscmum:do the edges,plot grows,joins with next doors :-\

Looks neat when done though

[micsmum]

 8) Andy
Could do but plot next door is vacant and covered with brambles!!! Mind you, its handy for chucking the odd weed or lump of clay that you KNOW that even the severest frost won't break up!!!!
Helen