Garlic & climbing french beans

[Teej]

Hi - I only have a small space in the garden to grow my veg &, like every year, I've over-estimated the size of it & planned on growing FAR too much!
I have autumn-planted garlic coming on nicely & was wondering if I could grow my Cobra beans amongst them.
I'm just trying to make sure that I use the space as best as I can.
Advice would be appreciated.
Thanks very much.

[Teej]

[pigeonseed]

the only thing would be to make sure the garlic had enough sun - but if your beans are tall climbing ones, you can remove lowest leaves. i do this anyway to fool passing snails and slugs.

i imagine it could work

[Tee Gee]

I am not sure about garlic but I know that onions do not like 'nitrogen' once they begin to swell, and as  beans fix 'nitrogen' into the soil I am not sure if it would be a good thing.

Then there is the other thing; I don't have much success outdoors with Cobra but under glass they grow brilliantly

BTW; am looking forward to other opinions on the nitrogen aspect!

[tonybloke]

garlic and onions don't like being planted with any nitrogen - fixing plants!

[Teej]

Thanks for your help on this guys - glad I asked now!  Will have to try & fit the beans in somewhere else.  Not grown climbing french beans before, just dwarf.

[Barnowl]

TeeGee - Cobra can perform well outdoors down here in the South. I find it one of the quickest to provide a harvest

[mummybunny]

Oh poo another mess up by me then  ::) i've planted my beans in the same bed!!

Ho Hum the say you learn as you go along!

lucy ;D

[1066]

MB I did the same thing last year on a small patch on my plot, and it was a couple of months later that I read about them not being the best of pals! As it's still early I'd sow more beans and pop them in somewhere else - that is if you have any room left  ;D

[manicscousers]

we grew onions around the bean bed, they just had to put up with it, there wasn't any room anywhere else, they seemed to get on  :)

[Barnowl]

Isn't it a bit early to plant out beans? I don't think they can handle frost.

[saddad]

Well I certainly won't plant any until late April, or late June if direct sowing French beans....  :-\

[Teej]

I've got a Plan B now for my beans!  Do you think 2 or 3 feet away from the garlic will be ok?  Can't really push them any further because of my onions!

I've got dwarf french just coming through now which I will grown on in pots in the greenhouse for a mega-early crop as in previous years - don't normally plant any beans outside until much later.

[Eristic]

BTW; am looking forward to other opinions on the nitrogen aspect!

While I believe it to be generally accepted that peas and beans do fix nitrogen, I believe that this nitrogen is by and large used up by the host plant during its growth. Any nitrogen released to the soil later must be minimal at best.

[Tee Gee]

While I believe it to be generally accepted that peas and beans do fix nitrogen, I believe that this nitrogen is by and large used up by the host plant during its growth. Any nitrogen released to the soil later must be minimal at best.

Yes I think you might be right there Eristic.

My view is; as the plant is growing it takes in nitrogen for its own purpose with possibly any surplus going into storage in the nodules.

This stored nitrogen is not released until the plant (bean) is cut down i.e. the roots are left in the ground for future crops of whatever!

Would you agree?

To come back to the garlic question the reason I wasn't sure of this (beans & garlic together) was I know I will be feeding my garlic with a nitrogen feed within the next few days.

However the purpose of  this nitrogen is to get the leaf system working again after their semi dormancy over the winter.

Similarly I think Japanese onions would tolerate beans (not that I would expect them to be growing together due to the time of year) but summer onions would not.

I say this because early beans may be cut down before the onions were fully developed thus releasing the stored nitrogen which could prove detrimental to the onions.

So really it all come back to 'timing' this is why I took the easy option when I said no in the first place.

Does that all make sense  ???

[Teej]

Thanks Tee Gee - decided will try the climbing beans elsewhere now, especially in view of your comments about Cobra not doing too well.  Will see if I can squeeze a couple in the greenhouse as a test & find somewhere sheltered for the others.  Will be growing plenty of my usual Tendergreen, Speedy & Safari anyway.
It gets complicated this gardening lark! ;D

[PurpleHeather]

Wont Autumn planted garlic be ready to pull up before the beans get to any size?

[Bjerreby]

Similarly I think Japanese onions would tolerate beans (not that I would expect them to be growing together due to the time of year) but summer onions would not.

That's interesting.

I understand it is generally said that the onion family don't get on with beans because of the beans fixing nitrogen.

But leeks (Allium porrum) are part of the onion family, and they apparently have a high nitrogen requirement. Do you have any experience of leeks together with beans, or leeks following beans the year after?

[Tee Gee]

This thread has got a bit out of kilter I think, we started with Garlic,then onions now leeks.

Bj can I suggest you have a look at the chat Eristic and I had. We are basically in agreement about 'nitrogen fixing' plants.

I concluded that garlic & japanese onions are unlikely to be affected by legumes and their nitrogen fixing property simply because their seasons do not coincide.

Now who is going to pick me up on autumn sown beans ? ;)

Here too there should be no problem because the autumn sown beans will be harvested around the same time as the garlic and it is then that they will release the stored up nitrogen (assuming I am correct in saying this is released when beans are cut down)

Regarding Leeks as I grow winter hardy varieties rather than summer varieties again the situation shouldn't arise simply because they would be in the bed that I plan on using for winter greens.

To take that further; why I have a bed dedicated to winter greens is; It means I can winter dig and prepare every other bed on the plot then all I have to do the following spring is prepare this bed after harvesting.

So it is simply a case of planning where you are going to put what, and knowing what plants likes & dislikes are.

Then of course there is the distance things are apart!

When you consider a beans rootball is about a foot in diameter if you planted your alliums at least 18" away and uphill of your beans all should be OK

Do you agree Eristic  ;)

[Eristic]

Do you agree Eristic

How could I disagree with your words of wisdom?

I will say though that many people put far too much emphasis on written dogmas in a similar manner to religious zealots debating the words of the bible. Unless one is aiming for a 1st at national show level, none of these minor imperfections in a crops diet really matter.

Lets exclude runner beans as these are typically grown in the same spot each year with nothing to follow on. Even though most people plant new beans each year the bed is perennial.

Peas and broad beans finish at a critical time of the year when the land they occupy is required for follow on crops and the moment the last pod is harvested they become weeds wasting valuable space. I don't care how much nitrogen the roots could give back to the soil it is woefully less than a tub of manure. Within 2hrs of last pickings I usually have the land cleaned, forked over and replanted.

Onions and leeks really don't really matter. They will grow all the better for a bit more nitrogen. It's not enough for the gardener to know his or her onions, they must also know how to harvest, store, manage and use what has been grown. Not all onions will keep throughout the winter so make sure the weaker specimens get to the kitchen first.