Author Topic: Proposed ban on metaldehyde outdoors in 2020  (Read 1620 times)

ancellsfarmer

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Proposed ban on metaldehyde outdoors in 2020
« on: December 20, 2018, 21:25:30 »
Announced by DEFRA yesterday.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/restrictions-on-the-use-of-metaldehyde-to-protect-wildlife
 Guess we need to get them all this year, the pre-emptive strike.
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Proposed ban on metaldehyde outdoors in 2020
« on: December 20, 2018, 21:25:30 »

Obelixx

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Re: Proposed ban on metaldehyde outdoors in 2020
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2018, 21:40:50 »
Or just switch to the ones based on ferrous sulphate.

Metaldehyde is very nasty.
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Beersmith

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Re: Proposed ban on metaldehyde outdoors in 2020
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2018, 23:15:39 »
Or just switch to the ones based on ferrous sulphate.

Metaldehyde is very nasty.

I fully agree. Frogs and a hedgehogs consume a lot of slugs. It makes little sense to poison the creatures that are actually helping in the fight against slugs.
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ancellsfarmer

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Re: Proposed ban on metaldehyde outdoors in 2020
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2018, 09:40:25 »
Commercially, growers are switching to ferric phosphate, allegedly "harmless " to wildlife; but toxic to earthworms. There used to be a preparation of aluminium sulphate (alum) known as Nobble to contact kill molluscs. When/why it dissappeared is unknown to me, is it still around?, did it work?
 Mechanical means may be therefore preferrable, beer traps, sharp blades, stamping on wilted ,laid, comfrey leaves after 2 nights.
Any other proven methods, mechanical or chemical?
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InfraDig

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Re: Proposed ban on metaldehyde outdoors in 2020
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2018, 10:33:49 »
For my small patch I am very happy using nematodes. It is a bit pricey, but I think it is worthwhile if I can enjoy my hobby without too many setbacks. There is a Toby Buckland article (Telegraph) which talks about making your own nematode solution but I haven't tried it!

pumpkinlover

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Re: Proposed ban on metaldehyde outdoors in 2020
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2018, 11:23:30 »
I tried nematodes for the first time this year, but in the end I only used them once as it was so dry!
Glad to see any measures to help our wildlife.



InfraDig

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Re: Proposed ban on metaldehyde outdoors in 2020
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2018, 14:13:12 »
I started to use nematodes when hedgehogs began visiting. I did use ferric phosphate tablets for a while, but then decided to only use them from time to time in the greenhouse. I didn't realise they were toxic to worms though. Must have a read around on that!

ancellsfarmer

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Re: Proposed ban on metaldehyde outdoors in 2020
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2018, 17:11:27 »
I started to use nematodes when hedgehogs began visiting. I did use ferric phosphate tablets for a while, but then decided to only use them from time to time in the greenhouse. I didn't realise they were toxic to worms though. Must have a read around on that!
My knowledge of the chemistry is limited but the substance has chelators added in manufacture, EDTA and/or EDDS, resulting in toxicity in lifeform cells, apparently.
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BarriedaleNick

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Re: Proposed ban on metaldehyde outdoors in 2020
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2018, 17:41:07 »
Gardeners QT on R4 today insisted that Garlic Spray is effective - anyone here tried it?

ancellsfarmer

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Re: Proposed ban on metaldehyde outdoors in 2020
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2018, 08:07:29 »
Gardeners QT on R4 today insisted that Garlic Spray is effective - anyone here tried it?
Does one know what it does to be "effective"?
Deterrent (by being 'smelly'), decoy by masking the flavour of food, chemically irritant as in some physiological interference, or trigger a Francophobe reaction?.
I wish to locally eliminate, (or significantly reduce )the population of molluscs , within the 'island' of cultivation.This has previously relied upon use of metaldehyde and mechanical methods.
 Perhaps one can 'tame' a resident hedgehog or two, providing shelter and subsistance rations. Proven, control tested, suggestions are welcomed
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ancellsfarmer

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Re: Proposed ban on metaldehyde outdoors in 2020
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2019, 11:40:58 »
No more thoughts?
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BarriedaleNick

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Re: Proposed ban on metaldehyde outdoors in 2020
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2019, 12:24:44 »
In terms of garlic spray or drench then this article from the Telegraph https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/3312965/Garlic-proves-the-kiss-of-death-to-slugs-and-snails.html - seems to suggest it is both a deterrent and poisonous to slugs and snails.
Beer traps work well and as I am brewing my own beer now I won't mind filling the odd blow for the slugs.
I think a multi pronged approach is the way to go.  Beer traps and garlic spray around new plants, a few pellets here and there and manual killing come the evening.
I would try leaving the hens out on the plot but they eat absolutely anything including all the plants I am trying to protect.

nodig

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Re: Proposed ban on metaldehyde outdoors in 2020
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2019, 17:32:04 »
I think allotment associations should ban it now - why wait for government legislation or until Bert uses up the ton of slug pellets he has secretly stashed at the back of his shed.

Plot 18

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Re: Proposed ban on metaldehyde outdoors in 2020
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2019, 22:33:54 »
It's difficult to ban things while they are still legally available.

nodig

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Re: Proposed ban on metaldehyde outdoors in 2020
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2019, 09:21:25 »
It's difficult to ban things while they are still legally available.

Good point Plot 18, but if the association made a rule that using or stocking of metaldehyde on allotment sites was forbidden then this should be obeyed.  If the little blue pellets were seen on a plot eviction would be a simple procedure. (unless of course the defendent claims the pellets were a set up).  Of course after the government bans its use, then it would become a criminal offence and it would be the duty of plot holders to report any use of metaldehyde. 

Plot 18

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Re: Proposed ban on metaldehyde outdoors in 2020
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2019, 09:47:15 »
Some of the more friendly pellets (Ferric Phosphate ) are also blue - so be careful who you name and shame ;)

squeezyjohn

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Re: Proposed ban on metaldehyde outdoors in 2020
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2019, 16:57:54 »
I've used copper collars with a lot of success, the only casualties have been plants where a leaf has touched the ground outside the collar, but I'm glad I bought all mine years and years ago before the price of copper skyrocketed.  For gardeners it's a great solution and if you clean and store them inside after the growing season they last forever.  But I think it would be too labour intensive in a commercial setting.

The plants only really need protection when they are young and tender, so you can move the collars around several times in a season from brassicas to beans to courgettes and pumpkins and then back to late sown brassicas.

ancellsfarmer

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Re: Proposed ban on metaldehyde outdoors in 2020
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2019, 19:06:25 »
BREAKING NEWS...
The High Court have today overturned the proposed ban of metaldehyde as a molluscicide, source Farmers Guardian
"

The legal basis of Defra’s withdrawal decision required the former Secretary of State for the Environment, Michael Gove to form his own view on the impact of the metaldehyde products on non-target species, but he did not do so.
Unlawful

 

Philip Tavener of Chiltern Farm Chemicals, who took the legal action to bring Michael Gove’s decision before the High Court says: “A few days before a hearing was due to take place in the High Court, the government conceded that its decision-making process was flawed. The decision was unlawful.

“Metaldehyde is back on the market and we’ve reverted to where we were eight months ago.

 

“The sell-out and use-up periods previously put in place no longer apply; it’s business as usual.”

 

Taking the metaldehyde status back to pre December 2018, the Court’s order confirms that the applications for product re-authorisation remain outstanding, and Defra are required to decide afresh as to whether to grant re-authorisation for the products or to revoke the existing authorisations, in accordance with Article 46 of the EC Regulation.
Agronomy arable Crop protection
Twitter "
Will you still use this cost_ effective product?
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Beersmith

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Re: Proposed ban on metaldehyde outdoors in 2020
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2019, 19:56:42 »
form his own view on the impact of the metaldehyde products on non-target species, but he did not do so.
Unlawful


This could be only short term. Another secretary of state could take proper consideration of the effect on non target species, and conclude it is harmful and having done so and followed correct procedure, could quite lawfully decide to impose a ban once more.

But individual ministers can be very quirky. Take the current eccentric trying to force his staff to avoid modern terminology. Another SoS might take a different view, or even simply kick the can down the road and ignore it altogether.
Not mad, just out to mulch!