Topic: Help needed, sourdough bread newbie!

[Jayb]

I recently sampled a Poilane sourdough loaf which was really good and prompted me to get a sourdough starter in progress, waiting for bubbles! I've found a couple of recipes on the net and also looked at the River Cottage bread book. But I'm wondering if homemade sourdough bread is worth the faff? Does it have to take days?

[peanuts]

Don't give up, JayB.  I've always made my own bread, starting with fresh yeast which I used to freeze in cubes, then latterly with sachets of quick yeast, or the little orange packets of it.  However  a several years ago I was inspired to try sourdough starters when I bought the wonderful Dan Leppard (not right!) Handmade Loaf book, which is really inspiring.  However, his description of   making a sourdough starter was so so complicated.  And you had to throw half of it away each time, something I couldn't do! I gave up fairly quickly.  Then Nigella's description in domestic Goddess encouraged me to start again as it seemed simpler. Now I do my own version which works for me and isn't difficult.  But it does change the taste of my normal wholemeal bread and we like it. 
I start off with some  strong flour, brown or white, say a couple of ounces, and half that quantity of warm water.  Mix well, and wait . . . . I do sometimes add a little plain yoghurt/honey/raisins.  I do it in a Carte d'Or ice-cream container with lid.  After a couple of days I add perhaps another ounce or two of flour and half that quantity of warm water, mixing well. I keep adding more most days when it is bubbling well.  I have to transfer it to a bigger container as I usually want more, when I am starting  4lbs of flour with it.
It really isn't  a sweat, as it mostly looks after itself, and is quite tolerant.  when you use it, you can either keep a little bit back to get it going again, or break off a piece of dough after it has been rising as bread, to use that to start it off again.  You just have to remember to do that though, and I often forget!
When it is reasonably working, after   three or four days of additions, you can store it in the fridge happily, just remember to get it out and going in sufficient time to be active for your next loaf. You can even freeze it.
I like doing this, as I use either no yeast, or sometimes add just a little, a quarter of what I'd normally use.

[BarriedaleNick]

Goodlife is yer gal for this but I have been doing sourdough for a while..

Once a starter is ready and a proper living organism (maybe 10-14 days) I put it the fridge.  Getting your starter to this point is where a lot of people give up but it isnt really that hard.  Just keep adding flour and water and giving it a good stir - once you have it active you can make bread with it rather than throwing half out all the time..
When I want to make a sourdough bread I take it out - I take half for a loaf and then make the strater backup with flour and water.  I leave the starter out for a day to get active and pop it back in the fridge - it can stay unused in there for weeks if not a month or two..

To make bread I normally just make as normal but it does take a while.  So in the morning I make the dough and go to work.
When I get home it has normally gone mental so I just knock back, prove (can take a few hours) and bake. 

Some prefer the sponge technique (River Cottage does I think) and it's not as bad as it sounds!

[galina]

I recently sampled a Poilane sourdough loaf which was really good and prompted me to get a sourdough starter in progress, waiting for bubbles! I've found a couple of recipes on the net and also looked at the River Cottage bread book. But I'm wondering if homemade sourdough bread is worth the faff? Does it have to take days?

Sourdough starter does need days from scratch, sourdough bread itself does not and should rise within a couple of hours in a reasonably warm place.  But - sourdough bread is generally denser than ordinary bread and does not rise as much. 

Hope Gazza will be along in a moment - he'll know the ins and outs.

[Jayb]

Thanks all, nothing like a spot of positivity to help with motivation 

Ok I think I'm understanding the starter bit and I'll keep a watch and when there are bubbles will add flour and water to it.

I think I was being put off by the sponge recipe/method taking two days to bake your loaf and me having to remember the faffy bits in-between. Thanks B'Nick you have made it sound all simple and manageable

Yes along with the taste it was the dense texture that I enjoyed. Although many of the pictures I've seen of SD loaves have looked filled with lots of fairly large holes?!

[goodlife]

I don't have much to add for what other have already said. Making your own starter is very easy but will take about to week to get the flour& water mixture active. When baking with new starter, I usually add tiny amount normal yeast into dough for first couple of loaves as even the starter is 'active', it doesn't really perform quite as well as truly established one and like Galine already mentioned, sourdough bread is more denser/heavier bread in texture....nothing wrong about it, it just comes surprised for those who have used to light shop bread. For me 'true' bread is always more denser.
There is different ways of using sourdough starter..and which ever way works for you..it will always be slower in process than making with commercial yeast. The slowness is good thing too!...you are in no hurry to deal with the dough and you can let the dough do its thing and do other things in between and bake the bread when it suits you.
yes..it can be bit of 'faff'..I don't do my own bread all the time and get through periods when I hardly bake or eat any bread...but when I do I start from scratch and make it sourdough 
here is link for sourdough starter making in process.. http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,71504.0.html

[MervF]

I use Allinsons Strong White Bread Flour and on the back of their new bags is a sourdough recipe.   Not sure who sells Allinsons wherever you are but I get mine from the local Asda.

[gazza1960]

my only sourdough starter is one I use for German style Rye/Wholemeal bread.................

75g Rye flour
80ml warm water
pinch caraway seeds

mixed,kneaded to a soft paste,and covered for 24 hours,stirred,then replace covered in a warm room for a further 24 hours.

This is a use once starter as I add the loaf ingredients to it.

The loaf is made with more Rye and Wholemeal flours plus some white flour,so it produces a dense form bread suitable for continental brekkies....meats..cheeses etc....not to everybodys eating tastes Ill grant you,but if you like bread slices you can actually taste then this mutha fits the bill.

so Jayb, no continued  faffing.....48 hours ..add ingredients...and eat ,simples..!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gazza

[galina]

A less dense 'white' type of sourdough bread is the famous San Francisco style sourdough bread.  There are loads of starters and recipes on www. 

[goodlife]

some good read about starting a starter.. http://www.sourdoughhome.com/index.php?content=startingastarter

[goodlife]

A less dense 'white' type of sourdough bread is the famous San Francisco style sourdough bread.  There are loads of starters and recipes on www. 

oh yes..I've done some white sourdough breads...saw the program about hairy bikers in Norway and they visited a bakery where they made this super stretchy gelly like sourdough... ..just had to have a go at that and the results after very slowly prooven dough in cool temperature resulted best tasting bread EVER! It didn't take anymore hands on time just loooong time for the dough to sort itself out...EASY!

[Debs]

I like the sound of that recipe Goodlife, what was it called & i'll google for the recipe

Debs

[Jayb]

My starter has had one feed and I'm waiting for it to start bubbling again. It's not doing much at the moment though, but luckily waiting for it to be ready gives plenty of time to decide on a recipe 

[goodlife]

I like the sound of that recipe Goodlife, what was it called & i'll google for the recipe

Debs

I was shown in their Bakeation series...It was on first program; Norway , but it wasn't called 'gelly bread', its my name for the dough for what it looks and feels like. It is made with white sourdough starter and white flour, kept over night in coolish temp and when handled in following day, no flour is used on surface just scraped and stretched around table..sprinkled with various fillings and folded over 'slapped' bit of olive oil and salt and scooped on tray for final 1/2 hour rise and baked. I made just plain white bread with same dough in tin and it was 'devil' of a bread...sooooo yummy , crusty on surface but chewy and moist and soft inside..PERFECT..couldn't really slice it with knife properly but you just had to rip into it.

[Toshofthe Wuffingas]

I haven't made a proper sourdough bread but usually when I make up bread dough for a pizza and some loaves I keep some raw dough back and leave it in the fridge to add to the next batch. It often goes winey after a while but I still use it.
A tip to try for home bread bakers: try a spoonful of lavender flowers in a loaf. The taste is wonderful and really good with home made jam.

[Jayb]

A tip to try for home bread bakers: try a spoonful of lavender flowers in a loaf. The taste is wonderful and really good with home made jam.

That sounds scrummy 

[Toshofthe Wuffingas]

I'll usually make three loaves at the same time as I do a pizza (made some today in fact). One loaf will be plain whether white or wholemeal or a mixture, and the other two will be flavoured. Today one had caraway seeds in, the other had finely minced up tomatoes that  I dried in the sun last September. Yes we did have some! On other bakings I might use fennel seeds, grated cheese or minced onion - though that goes mouldy quickly so you have to eat that fast. I'll experiment every so often.

I've discovered the knack of drying tomatoes in the British climate. Use a dry tomato like a plum type, scoop out any seeds and wet pulp, salt well and pop out on a grid on any dry day. The wind does as good a job as the sun. Now for the important bit. After a day or two at most, wash them in vinegar and resalt. The vinegar stops them going mouldy. Put out to dry again, bringing them in at night and if it is rainy. They do dry off. This is the second year I've done it. When they were dry I packed them in a jar with fennel seeds and covered them with hot olive oil.

[Mrs Tweedy]

When I make sour dough bread I make several loaves at a time and freeze  them.
The recipe I use is quite simple and the starter only needs 2-3 days sitting.
2 tsp dried yeast
300ml tepid water
250g white bread flour.   Mix the water with the yeast and leave for 5 mins then stir to dissolve the yeast and add the flour. Cover the bowl with a clean tea towel and leave for 2 days, three at the most.

After the 2-3 days, I Measure out 8fl oz of the starter and mix with 6 fl oz water and 1 tsp dried yeast.

I put 50g rye flour
325g white bread flour
1 and 1/2tsp salt into the bread maker and top with the starter, water and extra yeast and put it on the dough setting.

Shape the finished dough into a round loaf, pop onto a greased floured baking tray. Cover with a tea towel and leave until doubled in size, about 1 and 1/2 hours. Slash the loaf with a sharp knife to make a diamond pattern and bake for an hour at 220C or 200C in a fan oven.
If you put a dish of boiling water in the bottom of the oven the steam will make the loaf crustier.
 
I usually double the sour dough starter which will make enough starter to make three loaves. That means I can fill the oven up and then freeze the other 2 loaves. 

[Jayb]

Some lovely sounding ideas Tosh, though I'm always a bit hesitant with preserving things in oil. I'd have to read up on it again before attempting, but I love sun-dried tomatoes and it would be a great way to use some up (hopefully if it's a better year!).

Thanks Mrs Tweedy, interesting to hear you use freeze dried yeast to start. Is that bakers yeast or can you get freeze dried sour dough also?

My starter smells well yeasty now, though it doesn't seem very lively. I think I'm going to go with a simple white or wholemeal loaf to start or perhaps a focaccia.

[BarriedaleNick]

A true sourdough starter isnt made from dried commercial yeast - it uses wild yeasts and actobacillus bacteria present in flour and the atmosphere instead.  You can buy sourdough starter kits to get yours going or you can try to make your own from scratch. Either way will take a while - weeks possibly because the wild yeasts are slow to reproduce.  Some sourdough cultures have been around for decades - mine is just over a year old so a baby really!

This site is excellent for advice on how to pep your starter up.