Allotments 4 All

Grand child dropped in today.

Just ended their two years at college.

Has 15 of those GCSE things and several of the mid way things and is waiting the A level results. (The lowest grade ever was a B and that was in music)

Still has no idea what they want out of life.

Has just been offered an 'apprenticeship'  It is in business studies and the 'company' is rather a newish one.

We now have an 18 year old who is not sure what to do.

I said try the job then see what the results from the A levels are, then decide.

Things have changed so much over the decades but I do know that even when things seemed to be fairly good in the jobs world, before the recession, I met loads who had gone on to University got into a lot of debt but ended up with a job, others who had left school at 16 were doing, they had no debt and had been earning for several years.

Any views?

She needs to do what she wants...  She is still young :-)

However; she has a few options

1) If she has not yet applied to Uni, then she will only get in this year through "clearing" which means limited courses/uni's (mostly the less prestigious ones, but not always) for entry in 2010

2) Start the apprenticeship, and see whether she enjoys it.  She is earning, and may decide a little more what she wants to do.  She can then if she wants (this Autumn) apply to Uni for entry in 2011 (and use the "apprenticeship" as a bit of a gap year (don't tell emplyer tho!)   Oxbridge entries need to be in by mid October, otherwise it's later in the year.

3) She can put her heart into the "apprenticeship", and if she wishes, she can enter Uni at an older age.  once she is over 21, she'll be classed as a "mature student".  She may even decide she doesn't want to go back to further full time study.

4) If she does want to go to Uni, she needs to do a course that she will ENJOY.  Nowadays it doesn't tend to matter what the degree is in, just that one has a good 1st or 2:1.  Therefore it is important one enjoys the subject in order to do as well as poss.

How many people at that age know what they want out of life?!! At least she is taking time to think about it, rather than rushing into a Uni course that she begins to hate and regrets the time, money spent and debts increased.

She can always do an Open Uni course (or similar) at some point, in a subject she thinks she'll enjoy to try out Uni level study

Life is more than earning loads...

That's my view anyway...

I advised my niece that if she wasn't sure what degree she wanted to do - she should not just go to uni and get a degree (any one) and get into HUGE debt.

She has since worked in summer camp in america with special needs children, came home and has worked in the local primary school as aide to an autistic child. 

She now is working for a travel company running their children's clubs in a hotel in Spain.  She's working towards nvq qualifications and is talking about possibly doing a degree in teaching. 

Alison

I agree with Mat - there are many things you need to learn around that age, and they can be learned in different locations, in different ways.

I teach at a university, and I've learnt that the most important skills are mostly not subject-specific at this level. They include things like being able to take responsibility for your own work, being able to communicate in a formal and adult style, being able to form complex thoughts and opinions based on evidence, being able to work with others, dealing with fear of failure - all sorts of things.

Learning is really a life-long project. You can't expect to get it all in 3 years at uni or 3 years in one job. So I agree - try one or the other, and see how it works out.

Her own attitudes which are already partly formed will go along way to helping her make a success of whatever she does. If she's willing to learn and ready to face challenges then she'll do great in the long run, whichever path she takes.

I hope she enoys whichever one she goes for!

Just to add a spanner to the good advice so far, I used to do a lot of recruiting for big companies, most with offices in several countries, good opportunities etc, and they wouldn't consider anyone without a degree for anything above clerical type roles.

There are just so many people chasing the jobs that it's an easy ( lazy) way of cutting down on CV numbers, and it is felt to mean that the candidates are at least literate, have some level of personal discipline and application.

It has galled me to reject some really good people with great experience, but policy is policy in those circumstances.

Yes, she should absolutely do study something she is interested in, I can't remember the last time an employer cared what my degree is in.  Also,  she can go to college later and get a degree if she decided she needs/wants one, although living on fresh air when you've been used to an income is pretty grim and puts a lot of people off.

Getting a degree has always incurred huge debt for all but the well off and it's part of the test of how much you believe in yourself and want to invest in your own future.  I would not like to see anyone limit their long term prospects for some immediate gain which in the long term restricts their fulfilling a greater potential.

I didn't get into my stride until I was into my 30's, but the doors were always open because of my early investment.

Will the company sponsor her to do a day release degree?

Good luck to her whatever she chooses, there are so many more opportunities for young women today.

Go to university, the better the better.  And get as many degrees as you can.  But the essential life skills of both humility and confidence they don't teach, and without these life will be hard.

Not sure what an apprenticeship in business studies is ??


Both my sons were apprentices.electrician and mechanic........they have never had a day without work since earning their ticket.

Hard though as they earned very little while they were apprentices.I watched them turn from boys into men and was proud of their achievements.   :)

My 20yo didn't get the grades hoped for at 18, and couldn't face going through clearing immediately (the initial plan had been to have a gap year) or reapplying for the following year.

So worked for a year or so as an admin assistant - bored from start to finish, and drifted when that finished. 3 weeks ago, decided she was ready to go to university and contacted them. Will be starting in September.

If your grandchild decides not to go to uni straight away, there is the opportunity to do it when they are ready. It doesn't close the doors if they do something else first.

Sally

My 17 year old is coming up to a similar situation, so I'm interested in replies to this question.

Having been to Art School myself and left at  after 6 months, worked, then ended up gaining a professional qualification and then going back to study for my MSc. whilst working full time and in my forties, the only thing I feel for my own daughter is that she should be allowed to try whatever path she likes and then decides if it suits her. I had to fight to be allowed to go to Art School which my parents strongly disapproved of, but at least they let me try it; my husband was pretty much forced down one path careerwise and has always resented it! This is the age where they can make career mistakes and it be entirely redeemable; that changes as they get older with more responsibilities.

On the other hand, surprisingly my Accountant niece who gained her BA from the Open University has suffered some prejudice about the origins of her degree form employers, and now regrets not going to Uni when she had the chance....... :-\

Interesting discussion.  

As people are saying, the doors of Unis are always open, no matter what age you are when you decide to go in.

Yes, studying at Uni does incur debt, but you also have to look at the earning potential when you have a degree, compared to when you don't.  Plus, I think I'm right in saying that you don't start to pay back until you earn a certain amount.

I went to Uni (graduated in 1999, so it's a different world now) and I would certainly recommend it.

Along with the good points already made, I think it's important to consider the social and independence aspect to Uni life.  From the description, she sounds like a hard working, mature kind of person already.  

To add to this, the challenge of living away from home, with a number of 'strangers' is, in my view, a very positive one.  As mentioned earlier, life is also about the 'soft skills', like dealing with different people and different views etc.  

The melting-pot of a univerysity campus opens people up to so many experiences (OK, so not all good...) that, I think it is a positive thing.

I also think that apprenticeships, and learning on the job are fantastic (apart from the Lord Sugar one), for the right people.

Work can be hard.  

If you can post-pone things for three years or so, develop yourself, learn about yourself, study something that inspires you, and have a great time doing it, that's great.  Completely understand the concerns around debt - but she would also increase her earning potential on the long run.

I've never regretted going to Uni, and my wife & I are already trying to save to help our children through - if they decide to go that way (long way off yet).

Actually, I met my wife at Uni.  I take it all back, don't risk it...    ;)

Quote from: irnhed on July 13, 2010, 10:03:05
Interesting discussion.  

Actually, I met my wife at Uni.  I take it all back, don't risk it...    ;)

Yes there is that to consider too eh, quite a few people seem to have that happen to them......... ;D ;D ;D

I`m not really qualified to comment as I went to University a very long time ago when things were easier but my gut feeling is take the job.  Things in higher education and the job market are going to get worse before they get better(if they ever do).

Maybe in three years the picture will be different and if Univerity still beckons 21 is not old-in fact a `young` mature student will be better equipped to deal with things.

Whatever the decision I wish her luck for the future

Hi
I have found that it depends upon the career you choose.

In my career ecology/conservation there are no jobs for external candiates and only internal people or known voulnteers get the roles(this is never spoken about openly) therefore it is vital to get in at the lower level early. spending three four years getting into debt whilst those volunteers and workers gain 3 years of contacts and expereince makes it hard to then get a job. especially as you are no longer considered to be willing to do the entry level roles and therefore cant get in on the lower ladder either.

If you need a qualification you can do them whilst working and probably get part funded by your employer.


So you need to try to talk to people within the career they want to find out how recruitment works as the person above stated that the exact opposite applys in his realm of work. the current figures are though that there are 70 graduates for each graduate role so competition is fierce.

thats my two pee
x sunloving (dr)

As it is a new company setting up in the middle of a recession, I would be very suspicious of it.
It could be doing it to get grant money out of the government and then shut down.

If he/she does want to go to uni in the next couple of years, I'd suggest he/she applies next year even if he/she then ends up taking a year out, as fees are expected to double (to approx £7000 per year) for those applying for 2012. >:(

My daughter did a degree in Music and had been considering teaching but now works in marketing.  Is jetting all over Europe.   Son got a place at Oxford and decided he did not want to go.  Never regretted it.  Has his own business and works part time for another company.  I do not like to compare the two but actually financially he is doing better.  Has a nice house and a sports car. 

My granddaughter went to Exeter University, studied Politics, got her degree and now works for a Cabinet Minister. I think she is struggling financially. Her opinion is that a degree is not much good, you need a Masters Degree.

My Grandson (a cousin) did not go to University, instead he became a Chef and studied at the Regional College on Day Release. His starting pay? £9,000 a year (more than my pension).

Thanks for those replies.

Has three offers from different Universities, all dependant on the grades gained in the exams. 

I agree with dtw about the 'new company'. It is my main concern that it could be a road to no-where. However, there are always risks in life.

I think the debt from a student loan is the biggest put off and I am interested to learn how much exactly people who have completed their degrees have ended up actually owing/repaying. We have heard of scary tales about people owing tens of thousands and with the criteria of a £15,000 a year salary to have to repay ( I do not think it has ever increased since it's introduction). Added to three years of not earning. It can take many years on that higher salary to break even.

It does seem that if some one has the where with all to succeed they can do, no matter what. Let's just hope that what ever is chosen leads to a happy working life in the future.

An extra year to work and decide, in this case, is little lost because being born toward the end of the school year, the child would only be a few weeks older than many of those who are in a year lower in the school system.

As one who went back to university later as a mature student, I can certainly vouch for everything I gained a result of it. I didn't go after A levels as I had no parental support (v old fashioned pa, but think he'd have been jolly proud of me now!).

I read law, which I am using now, although not in the way I originally thought I would. I had a very successful career after school forged through much beating on doors and some luck, but I always felt a little bit lacking not having a degree. And that was on the days when it was not the norm to have one.

Now the percentage of degree earners is so high, I cannot help but think it is a distinct disadvantage to eschew higher education. Of course you can go back, but the worry for me at this stage would be that we do not know what is going to happen re fees etc , and, it is becoming increasingly competitive to secure a place at a good university. I would, in the case of a school leaver getting offers of a university place, think long and hard before turning down one made by a good university.
Good luck whatever happens! CLx

Quote from: CotswoldLass on July 14, 2010, 18:46:11it is becoming increasingly competitive to secure a place at a good university. I would, in the case of a school leaver getting offers of a university place, think long and hard before turning down one made by a good university.
Good luck whatever happens! CLx

Most Universities will allow students to 'defer' an offer for a year so it wouldn't have to be a case of turning down the offer.