Allotments 4 All

This weekend I am taking delivery at the allotment of 3 tonnes of well rotted farm yard manure. It is lovely black stuff that has been sitting on the farm since the spring. At £24 a trailer load I am very pleased.

The plan is to cover some of my bear ground with a 6” to 8” layer so the worms and time will take this down into the soil and then give it a spring dig ready for planting. This seems to be a commonly advocated idea in gardening books and is advice often offered on boards such as these.

The area will be used for main crop spuds, borllotti beans, spring broad beans, etc. As I am heavy soil this should improve the soil structure and increase N, P & K. Indeed I have been doing this for a number of years at hone in the garden and have “lightened” my soil considerably and fertility is not an issue.

However, a bit of recent research triggered by some comments on various gardening sites has questioned the value of this approach saying most of the available Nitrogen can be leeched out of the manure and soil if we have a wet winter. This is worse on certain soil types. The benefits to soil structure do not seem to be question though.

For information:

http://www.hgca.com/publications/documents/cropresearch/RD_Roadshow_1999_paper_14.pdf

So my question(s) are:

Do people think the leeching of nutrients is problem that warrants me changing my plans?

On heavy soil I would prefer not to walk on or work on the soil in Jan/Feb as it can be/normally is too wet and I will do more harm than good apply manure in the spring.

Could a spring application of manure result in damage to seedlings/plants from N scorching?

Am I worrying too much as manure application in autumn is also very useful?

Thanks

Jerry

This is one of those messages that starts -'I'm no expert, but..............' ;D

It seems like a good plan to me. If you're on a heavy clay soil then nutrient deficiency is less likely to be a problem than soil structure -you may already have more nutriants than your plants can get at.

Secondly, a lot of what you want to grow seem to be beans -which are nitogen fixers and so should boost the N in the soil anyway.

Where abouts are you? A wet winter in Wales is a bit different to a wet winter in Essex :)

Finally -if it's worked for you in a similar situation before then I'd carry on as planned.

And now over to someone who really knows something.

Jeremy

You could, of course, simply cover the manure with black polythene.  Not only would this prevent any leaching, but the worms would then work right up to the surface under the polythene and do a much better job.

Failing that, forget about the leaching out. The main benefit of manure has to be the humus content and (particularly on clay) the improvement in the colloidal condition of the soil, which you certainly won`t get if you`re trampling all over it in a wet February, doing more harm than good.  After all, the N content of well rotted cow manure is only 0.64%, P 0.23% and K 0.32%(Rothamsted figures) and any leaching can easily be compensated for by a spring dressing of Blood, Fish& Bone meal or a similar organic compound fertilizer.

Anyway, I`ve just finished doing mine.

HDRA recommends that if manure is incorporated in the autumn then a green manure be sown over it to capture nutrients released by the manure and prevent leaching. By having a green plant overwinter, that can be turned in in the spring, will also result in added nutrition being captured.
In the mid 1970's I remember listening to an interview with a farmer in which he mentioned that heavy winter/early spring rain has washed out so much N from his soil that his overwintered wheat had turned yellow. Given that the Climatic Research Unit has found that, probably due to global warming, rainfall patterns in the U.K. have shifted to higher winter precipitaion the chances of wash out of N has significantly increased since then. The advice to spread manure in the autumn is mainly one of economics- for the farmer it avoids a labour peak in the spring when there is a lot else to do and for the home gardener, who probably has to blend gardening with outside employment, it also avoids a labour peak at that time. Good economics but a poor cultural practice.
If Hugh's numbers are correct (I have seen 2-1-2 quoted elsewhere) then your manure contains 19 kg of N.. Cabbage, a notoriously heavy feeder, only needs 20kg per acre, as a base dressing to grow successfully. Your manure, if you can retain the N, will supply a significant proportion of that amount- plus that N will not end up in the groundwater where everyone else's leachate could be too.

Thanks guys. Food for thought certainly!

FYM is notrious in variability so the NPK values will always be a bit uncertain.

I like the idea of covering with plastic as that will protect the ground from leaching to a degree and it will also warm up the soil a bit in the spring. Worth considering.

Green manures will also be good and I can understand the theory there, time is going to be an issue though and with the recent/constant rain here in sussex the ground is not workable at all at gthe moment to consider planting some!

Jerry

What about fresh manure as a mulch over winter chaps? We get bags and bags of it for free -and I've got a fair amount stacked up for digging in later. But could I use the fresh stuff as a mulch over winter to let it break down a bit? It's shaving based, not straw. I would probably not dig most of it in -just plant through it.

Although if this rain keeps up the allotment will be in the stream anyway >:(

Jeremy.

I certainly wouldn't derbex. Wood is almost entirely carbon, which is not a plant nutrient, and will require the use of N by the degrading organisms in the soil to break it down. This will temporarily tie it up and make it unavailable to crops- not much breakdown will occur overwinter so this will happen when the plants need it most. Additionally spreading it now will also result in unnecessary leaching as there is no crop to absorb it.
sanders- I haven't incorporated green manure seeds for years. I simply broadcast the seeds just prior to rain and there is sufficent germination that I have never been able to tell the difference from when I did incorporate the seeds.

I'll carry on stacking then :) I do it with grass clippings to provide some N and speed things up a bit, the worms havve moved into the first lot I did and will hopefully help things along.

Jeremy

Quote from: john_miller on October 14, 2004, 05:04:29

If Hugh's numbers are correct (I have seen 2-1-2 quoted elsewhere)  

Shame on you John. The figures  quoted are from the tables issued by the Rothamsted Agricultural Research Station after analysis of numerous samples of farmyard manure (including litter) from Dairy cattle.  If you would like to bored to death I can also give you the comparable figures from the same source for cow manure (without litter), Store cattle manure, horse manure, pig manure, fresh poultry manure, superphosphate treated poultry manure, deep litter compost with hardwood shavings, deep litter compost with softwood shavings, etc. etc.

If Sanders` ground is anything like mine he won`t need to sow a green manure crop - in 3 weeks it will be covered by a magnificent layer of chickweed which will keep it safely protected from the elements for the winter and will then rake off in March to start next year`s compost bins.

 Mind you, if he proposes to spread his manure 6" to 8" thick, then I suppose that even chickweed might have a struggle to get through,  but even 3 tons (especially if it is 3 tons wet) isn`t going to go all that far at that thickness.

If derbex`s wood shavings manure is really fresh then I would suggest that it should be stacked for the best part of 12 months to rot down properly - aided with plenty of what a BBC commentator described as `liquid human waste` - far better than late autumn grass cuttings.

Shame?

It gets that as well Hugh  ;D And I've got to do something with the grass clippings -d**n stuff will keep growing.

I spilt 4pts of worm juice in the back of the car earlier in the year, Mrs D wasn't happy, but I can't think what she'd say if it was recycled beer & wine.

Jeremy

gross!  Worm juice indeed.  That did make me cringe and laugh Jeremy!  In this family, it would have been me doing the spilling and Ava moaning!  hehehehe.

I sprinkled my green manure seeds over the vacant ground, raked roughly and have left it to it.  There are alsorts of things growing, but come early spring, it will all be chopped down and dug in, and hopefully will aid water retention on my very well drained plot!

Old Jack on our site is on his second sowing and digging in of Mustard this year!  The first lot grew so fast and flowered in weeks, so he chopped it down, rotovated it in, and sowed again!  Can you over do it?

Having grown up about 30 miles from where you are I cannot imagine it being possible to overmanure your soil, especially when I contrast it to the 'muck' soil that my uncles farmed on! It is possible but two green manure crops won't come anywhere close.

We are expecting a load of manure from our local farmer. How much will i need for a plot sized 90' x30'. I also hope to leave one half of the plot covered in winter till Spring. I will also use it for other areas , potatoes ,fruit,mulch for strawberies etc.

We only get a delivery once a year, but i can get as much horse manure as i want on a daily basis if i fetch it my self, i have an old trailer. Is this worthwhile, I know it would need to rot well but it is free. It seems a shame to waste it. is there any where i can incorperate it fresh. eg in a trench under potatoes as there seems to be more straw than dung also well soaked with horse urine.

Hi Jerry, just read your request for help,answers to questions and things people forgot to say,
1, your heavy soil,books and gardener say, dig your soil deep and add as much organic material to help with dranage and to help with braking up the soil itself.
2,Crop rotations, split your plot into 3,name them abc or 123, Year 1
Plot 1/A---Dig deep and Manure in and around winter when rain allows plant,Potatoes,toms,Beans,Peas,Beetroot,
Plot 2/B---Plant lettuce,leeks,onions,Carrots,Parsnips,
Plot 3/C---Plant your cabbages,sprots etc
year 2 plant your potatoes in plot 2/b but only manure where the potatoes go every year and rotate
year 3 move potatoes into plot 3/c hope this helps
Year

hi jerry, part 2,leeching of nutrients,if a good load is placed in the bottom of the trench when beeing dug in the nutrients should last for a couple of years,
Spring mulches,a good covering of well rotted manure and blood,fish & bone will help with growth and to keep water, try to make all your plots 4' wide and as long as you wish,try to raise the plot by 6"by placeing a board all around it ,this help you from walk on the plot you plant,
it may help with your soil to place some sharp sand in when digging to help with dranage,hope this help,
windy