Allotments 4 All

hi all,,
after 5 years on my plot, I am finding myself embroiled in a horrid boundary dispute. The story is a bit complicated but does anyone have any suggestions how I can check out the legal status of council leases. I have thought about joining one of the allotment societies but they seem to be for groups rather than individuals. Our site is small and has had no administration for some years resulting in what looks almost like a land grab by some people and hugely differing plot sizes despite our tenancies stating we should have a certain amount. What, exactly is a 'pole'?
all suggestions welcome, cheers, suzy

HI

Who do you pay your rent to?

link to pole discussion can be found http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/joomla/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,91/topic,622.0

Cambourne7

Cambridge City Council.

though so there very lax at picking up managment issues.

I know that in cambridge things can get very stick with these types of boundrys.

The City Council provides more than 1700 allotment plots. The council handles applications for allotments. However the day-to-day management of these is mostly carried out by eight local allotment societies

Parks & Recreation Section
Cambridge City Council
The Guildhall
Cambridge
CB2 3QJ
01223 457542

You need to get someone to come out and address A) your imediate problem B) unify all the little groups into a big one...

fun reading

http://www.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/FCFF9D9A-E4F1-4F01-8E0D-63FA8967697E/0/allotment.pdf

Your inbox is full or i would have pm'ed you my details as your about 9 miles from me.

Cambourne7

cheers, cambourne, just stopped myself from going into a massive rant just thinking about the unfairness of it all! Inbox emptied now

rant away you sound justified :-)

Good luck with your dispute and hope it gets resolved quickly

thank all - I am beside myself but determined to stand my ground as my plot is only 4.5 metres wide whereas some plots are 6,7 or 8 metres. My neighbour and I are boxed in the middle and her plot is also thin but she has complained to the council resulting in the official making me move my boundary another metre giving me less than 4m width. He got away with this because I have been working this plot which was leased by an elderly friend who had the original plot for 38 years. When he got too ill to work the plot himself, we had a formal meeting with the council to agree to me taking it over since I had been given a very tiny and thin half a plot (both plots together are only 7.5 metres wide). I was waiting for the formal contract this April but was in the position of not yet having the second lease in my name so the council chap decided to withhold the contract for the whole plot unless I agreed to lift my edging AND surrender the half a plot despite adding over 4 tonnes of topsoil, 10 tonnes of manure, 12 timber raised beds and fruit and asparagus (due to crop for the first time this year). Since both plots do not add up to 10 poles (and the council have been bullying and dishonest) I am determined not to surrender my half a plot (I have both contracts now after moving 35 metres of timber edging) - even more galling, there are several plots which have not been cultivated for over 5 years but the owners simply pay another years rent with no fear of eviction for 'dirty plots' - one woman actually advertises for people to do the work for her - I have only seen her 3 times in 5 years and she has never grown a thing! Several plots are only half used (including my neighbours who started all this by trying to claim that I was trespassing on her plot despite mine being no wider than hers(and Reg's rhubarb still in place at the edge of his/our plot. I guess the council man figured that he had better leverage as he agreed that our plot was also ridiculously narrow but it was easier to get us to move than making the 3 people responsible at our end and the 4 plots at the other end, change their boundaries, all of which are almost twice as wide as mine! Dammit - I AM staying. I am also getting very cheesed off with the spate of books and articles advertising the 20 minute allotment etc - rubbish - an allotment is hard work and takes committment and passion - it is not a bloody fashion statement.

20 minute allotments are a nonsense; they don't do anyone any favours with that stuff. I hope you get  it sorted, as things can get nasty. We've got a property dispute going to court on my site.

Sending you a virtual round of applause. 

I've often wondered why someone would take on a plot if they were only going to spend 20 mins at time working on it......I think it is taking the good advice of little and often to extremes.  Now if it were 20 mins digging, have a chat, 20 mins weeding, have a coffee.............

Make a stand, you are right, you have been 'chosen' because the council worker thought it would be easier to bully you than to deal with the 'ground-hogs'  Have you involved your local Councillor and/or MP - that usually does the trick.

Have relations with your neighbour broken down?  Is it too late to work out an agreement between the two of you, do you have neighbourhood mediators in your area?

Good luck

Campanula, afraid I have nothing to offer other than to join in with the virtual applause and say yes dammit- you arestaying! I really wish you all the best with this. Stand your ground (literally) and feel free to rant and vent at will!

cheers. everyone - wierdly, I have not seen my neighbour although I have been at the plot everyday and all day at the weekends so who knows. I don't really have a beef with her anyway as she was just sticking up for her rights (although if she had said anything to me first, we could have worked it out together, I am sure). - it is half a dozen people at each end who have been getting away with grabbing the space - usually by claiming that they are happy to not have a path, digging up the plot....and then making a path anyway since none of us can levitate. Still, thanks to all here, I have worked out that the whole plot is only 200 square metres rather than the 300 odd that I pay for and even with the half plot, the total is less than 300 so I figure that if I just hold out for the 10 poles on the lease, I should be OK with one and a half small plots. Anyway, as you say, it sometimes comes down to what is at stake and I have a huge chunk of my life invested in this little patch so I am going to fight for it.

Rock on Campanula! You're right, we all invest a lot of time to our lotties. you should at least be gett ing what you pay for. makes me feel very lucky and appreciate my well run site.
keep us posted!

Hi Campanula :o

If you have a tenancy agreement with the council surely it states what it
is you are paying rent for. Do they issue a map of the site? I just think there
has to be some documentation that says you pay so much annual rent for so many rods (Norwich have gone metric) located in a specific space.

If that agreement has existed for five years then someone from the council needs to check the boundary lines with the pre-existing maps and agreements and remark the boundaries.

I`m sure that the council will have all the documentation they need to cover themselves in case of legal trouble. They can`t charge rent on unspecified pockets of land.

You could go around the site asap and photograph all historical markers like boundary posts, paths, sheds, hedges etc before they get removed.

You might be able to measure and mark out your own interpretation ofthe maps and agreements and again take photos of your findings to help the council along.

Best of luck, Col

Best of British to you Camp. ;D ;D ;D

two things:

1. Good luck in your dispute

2. There is such a thing as a 20 minute allotment!   (I spend a good 20 minutes, then another 20 minutes, then another 20 minutes, then another.....)

 ;) Hi Cambs, I'm new to all this 'cos a society is just reforming in my area. Your message & replies have forewarned me to the pitfalls to avoid. Please do keep up the pressure on the Council. As a council employee of 17 years standing I know that the old adage of 'Those who shout loudest get things done" does work. I know its wrong but be encouraged. You have leases, don't be afraid to use them!! Good Luck.

cheers all
I have just borrowed my son's camera and have decided to go around the site taking pertinent photos of all the plots which are not being done and the hugely different sizes of plots. I know there is a huge waiting list for plots but figure that thre council can reclaim the ones not being used before the ones that are worked and loved. I felt reticent about going down this route as it suddenly becomes personal and almost smacks of tale-telling so will go for the size argument first. It occurs to me that I could possibly just keep quiet as our council is a bit inept and horribly short of staff but then I would be worrying for ever. Even so, I have got over my initial feeling that if I said anything disagreeable (to the council) they could take my plot away - a lease is a lease and now I have a lease on both plots - I could always squat!
I think I could get quite a lot of the other plot holders to stick up for me cos I am a nosy northerner and have introduced myself to everyone and usually tour the whole site to chat and look. I have watered and hoed for people when they have been away so I have support, i think - plus, I am the only person on the site with a gas stove and a teapot which whistles when the kettle is on!