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Im getting really fed up with the apologetic culture we have for race / religion hate. Im also SO fed up with letting kids who try to be men, not being allowed to have a HARD slap from a man.

why is ENGLAND becoming such a wet nation ?

who are we afraid of ?

What's wet about saying there's something wrong with people who go around spreading hatred and abusing others? I think they're sick.

I did not reply to this post because I could not quite see where it was coming from - is Fingle saying that we should come down hard on the Muslim community to prevent another attack and not be worried about being called rascist.  If that is what he is saying then I cannot agree at all.  Not only is it rascist, it will breed resentment and make the problem worse.  I also believe that using a slap to control bad behaviour is modelling that this is what should be used if something happens that you do not like.  The one thing we have to be is better than those that resort to violence and standing up and not giving in to your base instincts is stronger than giving in.  I know - I do occasionally overreact - and I bitterly regret it afterwards.

Fingle, what is it you are trying to say?Not sure myself.  I think race and religion are a facet of who/what we are.  Not the sum tolal.  Judge individually, not racially.  I feel such sadness for the majority of the muslem community, talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place.  As for smacking children, that's another issue, happily debate it, just not sure what issue you are raising.  Lottie

I agree with you Lottie......otherwise we'd have to jail all the british youth due to the football violence  :(

Exactly; if you're going to start stereotyping people then where's it all going to end? My wife is a practising Muslim; she was just as horrified by the attacks as anyone else. So were all the other Muslims we know, and there are lots of them. Treat people properly, and you keep their support. Stamp on them, and you produce more terrorists, as the Israelis should know if they're living on the same planet as the rest of us.

You'll probably find that the original poster doesn't give two hoots on people's follow up opinions but rather the squabbling it may cause between posters <sigh> So uncalled for.

Sun reader?

Merry Tiller. Steady boy steady ;D This old lady reads the Sun  but also read a lot of serious material. Not a racist and don't agree with the original poster's  comments but agree with Yellow Petals. I am sure us friendly lot on these forums can just ignore things like that. ::) Love to all decent members Lorna.

Now is fingle saying that us well balanced folk shouldnt apologise for the fools whom perpertrate racism? Not sure if i agree with that.  :(
I wouldnt apologise for that myself- im just ashamed they claim to be the same species as me.
As for all this slapping stuff- whats wrong with a manly punch? :o ::)

I don't have much time to post these days, but you may recall that I'm genetically socialist and in a position to have more facts on related matters than some (especially Mail readers)

I have lived in London long enough not to be cowed by recent events - in fact I barely turned a hair.  Does that make me cold or is it proof that the "Blitz spirit" in inherited?

I am not in the least surprised that the bombers were British - I knew they would be EU nationals as they were obviously able to travel (asylum seekers can barely afford bus fares). 

We need to be more open to other cultures and ideas.  The general impression on the mass media is that this is still a closed society.

Even I am from the first generation of my family to be born in this country, and I am aware of my "otherness", though I find it a blessed relief as it allows me to distance myself from the horrific opinions and actions of far too many...

Remember violence (even in thought) breeds violence.

I don't understand what Fingle is saying either.

I don't have a religion. I respect those who are at one with theirs. I've been treated badly by a church going Christian and with warmth and friendship by a Muslim. The Christian, a family member by marriage and the Muslim, a stranger I met in a street.  It's people who count. Their smiles,their laughs, their time,their ups ,their downs,their friendship. Religion is sometimes a big part of them but when they are at ease with their god, they don't need to force it upon others.

I stayed at a hotel where the family were muslims. They played Cat Stevens constantly,I thought it was kind've endearing but it didn't go over my head. I asked about their faith and they gave me a book to read. Happy that I took an interest, nothing more. That I would say, is the norm.

I'm not going to hate anyone because of their religion. They are lucky to feel secure in their faith... because I have non.  I'm puzzled by religion. I don't take it as read. I have questions.

I was told the other day that a person I know wants to move to Spain because she doesn't want to have her daughter brought up in this country because it is full of yobs,terrorism and immigrants.  There has always been yobs.  Madrid! ETA!  And if you move abroad you become an immigrant don't you?!

I observed the 2 minutes silence today. I think the British do have the hearts of the lion and I feel patriotic.   Why don't we ever hear about what is good about us?  You hear how cr*p you are for so long you believe it.

Also, we owe alot to many countries for their help during WW2... something to remind ourselves of when we think about racism and religion.

That's the hidden side of WW2; it's all too often been ignored. One of my wife's uncles served in the Navy with Lord Mountbatten, became a close frined, and represented Sierra Leone at his funeral. People like that tend not to get a mention.

There are always people with closed minds, unfortunately, who feel threatened by anyone different to themselves. There's a distinct strand in Christianity which encourages this, and attracts them in large numbers. Unfortunately, it's now been copied by afew Muslims; they may hate Christianity, but they're very heavily influenced by its worst aspects.

Im afraid you have all missed the point somewhat.
I am abhored by racism and hatred, which is precicely the reason why I find it so disgusting that the authorities tip toe around fundementalist clerics like Hamza and his crooked buddies. Standing in the street openly praising those who kill, with their little thugs guarding them faces covered with scarves. That CANNOT be justified.
Our weakness has led to this growth.

Tell me thats OK, and I will tell you, that I have lost all hope for this country.

The majority of decent muslims must be so disheartened

That's alright then.  :)

Quote from: Fingle.... on July 15, 2005, 10:47:17
The majority of decent muslims must be so disheartened

Disgusted, scared, and as upset as anyone else. I should know, I'm married to one of them. She was almost hysterical when they announced that they were suicide bombers. And, of course, she feels really vulnerable; there have been attacks on mosques in Birmingham before now. I think most Muslims are in a really difficult situation; they hate what's going on in Palestine and now Iraq, and while their religion doesn't allow suicide, attacks on non-combatants, or damage to infrastructure during a war, it does give Muslims a duty to fight back when they're under attack, and there doesn't seem to be any real way to do it. If those two messes were sorted out and peace and justice restored, most of the problems would disappear.

Oh Robert, your poor wife.  I can't imagine how she must be feeling.  We're all British, isn't that the point? They are nutcase individuals in my book, white, pink, yellow purple.  Religion doesn't enter into it for me.  I know people, not their religions.  Best wishes to your wife, we not all ignorant twats.  Lottie

Quote from: Robert_Brenchley on July 15, 2005, 21:34:34

Quote from: Fingle.... on July 15, 2005, 10:47:17
The majority of decent muslims must be so disheartened

Disgusted, scared, and as upset as anyone else. I should know, I'm married to one of them. She was almost hysterical when they announced that they were suicide bombers. And, of course, she feels really vulnerable; there have been attacks on mosques in Birmingham before now. I think most Muslims are in a really difficult situation; they hate what's going on in Palestine and now Iraq, and while their religion doesn't allow suicide, attacks on non-combatants, or damage to infrastructure during a war, it does give Muslims a duty to fight back when they're under attack, and there doesn't seem to be any real way to do it. If those two messes were sorted out and peace and justice restored, most of the problems would disappear.

Please rest assured Robert, most right thinking people have the same dilemmas.  I find myself justifying (to an extent) the actions of the Palestinians because they have had years of struggle against an oppressive occupying regime - and I have to face hostility for this point of view - I do not support action against against Isreali (unoccupied terrortory) civilians for the record, but do think they are justified in acting against the Israeli state.  The problem is that fascist Asian supremasists have adopted the Palestinian struggle as their worldwide rallying call against the West and use a perversion of Islam to justify killing innocent people in the US (not an innocent nation), the UK (not wholly innocent but usually best intentioned), other Western targets and fellow Muslims in Iraq.   It is this that has to be fought and not Muslims or Islam.  It is a continuation of the fight against Fascism, the same that was fought against Hitler and Mussolini.  It is the same fight that we need to fight against fundamentalist right wing Judaism in Israel.  It is the fight against the right wing, not a part of our society.  (sorry I am trying to bring this to a conclusion but I have started to ramble)

It is a fight that we need to win - all of us! (got it)