Green manure to control marestail?

[earlypea]

Anyone have any experience of using GMs to try and control the growth of marestail especially in spring/early summer.

I've got a couple of impossible areas;  I've dug the roots out a countless number of times now and it still runs riot, whereas other beds are pretty much clear with similar treatment. 

I'm looking for a different tactic, hoping to outgrow it, especially in spring, early summer when it's at it's worst.  Anyone tried doing it that way?

[earlypea]

[grannyjanny]

We put a thick layer of FYM on our plot in late March but will do it in the Winter this year. The horse tail was less rampant but still needs hoeing off regularly. Sorry no experience of green manures. 

[realfood]

I doubt if green manure will have any effect. Apart from regularly hoeing off the growth, I have used ground control fabric to suppress the growth.

[goodlife]

No..I don't think greenmanures are your answer neither..
..sorry..I think you may have to result to sweat a bit more.. ::)

[Emagggie]

Keep on digging earlypea. I have the dreaded marestail on both of my plots. You learn to live with it after a few years. ;D

[Tin Shed]

I have  a few bits [so far!!!!] of marestail growing in my raised bed, but it is being totally swamped by the New Zealand spinach which has turned rampant. The marestail is still there, but you have to search for it!!!!

[springbok]

Can someone please tell me what Green Manure is :) Thanks

[Chrispy]

Can someone please tell me what Green Manure is :) Thanks

A green manure is a plant that you grow then dig in to improve the soil, mainly by adding organic matter, but also some fix nitrogen or help break up the soil or sub soil.
What earlypea is thinking of is a cover crop, which is basically what a green manure is before you dig it in.
A cover crop is a plant that covers the soil, and hopefully smothers and kills weeds.

[Chrispy]

I read somewhere that buckwheat releases chemicals that affects other plants and reduces their growth rate, or something like that.
I can't find where I read it, so has anybody heard about it, or knows where I can read more, or am I talking rubbish?

[springbok]

Can someone please tell me what Green Manure is :) Thanks

A green manure is a plant that you grow then dig in to improve the soil, mainly by adding organic matter, but also some fix nitrogen or help break up the soil or sub soil.
What earlypea is thinking of is a cover crop, which is basically what a green manure is before you dig it in.
A cover crop is a plant that covers the soil, and hopefully smothers and kills weeds.

Ok that is very interesting, but what plants would you grow to smother weeds....

[earlypea]

I read somewhere that buckwheat releases chemicals that affects other plants and reduces their growth rate, or something like that.
I can't find where I read it, so has anybody heard about it, or knows where I can read more, or am I talking rubbish?

All of them release various chemicals, exudates (I think they're called) which inhibit this or that, which is why I ask.

Another reason I was wondering is that I have some clover paths and they never sprout marestail, but then maybe it wasn't there in the first place.  I'll try it.  You can't carry on digging and digging for two years with no effect it's ridiculous.  Must try something else.  I covered in black fabric - it found it a lovely warm mulch.

Like I say, other areas got sorted out, but I think because these areas had millions of spore heads when I first arrived the infestation is far more intense.

[picman]

Our council workers leave us piles of wood chip from there tree cutting , come October i mulch heavily, it decomposes quickly as it already started in the pile, I  then spread mag-lime and rough dig , removing as much MT as possible, after a further dressing of FBB
and a rotovate in the spring, its all systems go. The MT is still with us but getting gradually better. (In my soil MT roots go deep > 2ft and spread like a net )
   

[earlypea]

I read somewhere that buckwheat releases chemicals that affects other plants and reduces their growth rate, or something like that.
I can't find where I read it, so has anybody heard about it, or knows where I can read more, or am I talking rubbish?

OK, had a google of 'buckwheat' and 'exudates' and it seems you're right, buckwheat does have a good reputation for that.  The word for having a controlling effect on weeds seems to be 'allelopathy' and this research doc popped up relating to buckwheat.

http://lnmcp.mf.uni-lj.si/Fago/SYMPO/1998SympoEach/1998s-7-12.pdf

I'll have a read and more of a search later - thanks for the buckwheat lead........

(Come to think of it I had planned to grow some buckwheat to eat so that's a happy coincidence  :) )

[earlypea]

Seems to-date research on allelopathy is inconclusive, but ongoing....

A straightforward summary doc from garden organic
Allelopathy - a practical weed management tool?
http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/organicweeds/news/story.php?id=1875

Understanding Why Rye Works as a Cover Crop
http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/organicweeds/news/story.php?id=1875

[Emagggie]

,  a rotovate in the spring,  

Don't you find that this chops it up and spreads it even more picman?

[picman]

I guess it will , I go round and remove the MT that has poked through the chips also but I find the stronger roots get wrapped around the tines so get removed, also need to turn in the now rotting chips. I seem to be winning.

[kt.]

If only I could invent something that would get rid of marestail,  I'd patent it then be a billionaire ;D ;D ;D

[rog_pete]

interesting for weed info and killing it!

marestail also included

http://www.allotment.org.uk/articles/Weeds_and_What_to_do.php

[Emagggie]

This is all very well but if I put glyphosate on all areas affected I would miss a whole year of growing crops. I'd rather lump it.

[Digeroo]

Doesn't liming get rid of marestail?  It simply does not grow on chalk or limestone. 

I remember as a youngster studying the geology of the south east and where the chalk of the north downs gives way to the upper green sandstone that it was marked by the occurance of marestail.  I remember the geography teacher pointing it out.

I also thought the pototoes and courgettes have an effect on weeds.  Thought having no marestail I have no experience of what effects they have on it.