Landfill

[ninnyscrops]

Another one of my senior moments (OK don't all shout at once!) got me thinking about the current landfill strategies.

We put all the green waste in the gardening bins, kitchen peelings in our compost, bones and cooked overs in the green cone, some - only some - plastics and metals in another bin, bottles, papers in others.

So what is the current landfill stuff going to produce, if anything, if it doesn't have the natural biodegradable additives to help it?

Ninnyscrops

PS Won't be around for the diamonds  ;D

[ninnyscrops]

[telboy]

Hi ninnycrops,
Interesting point. Our County Council recycle a high proportion of green waste but why don't they sell it back to the public & save on the rates? They dump it on farm land, as I understand. I could do with a few tonnes!

[cefer]

Hi Ninns
GREAT subject here!!!! :)

We have three bins here, one all recycle stuff, (which is sent to a centre and all sorted) one for all garden waste and one for rubbish.

We also get money back for for all soft drink cans like coke lemonade etc, also 2 litre bottles of soft drink and water. Beer bottles, wine bottles, are also money back. Tetra packs, flavoured milk cartons too.
We get 10c  (4pUK) each for them.
These are taken to a recycle centre, nothing to do with the council!!!
Saves a lot of rubbish in the streets and around the countryside!
People like to get the money!!!! ;D

Take care all
Gill

[ninnyscrops]

Hi Telboy,

Must admit our council sells bags of compost up at the local recycling center but tried it once and full of strange bits so I won't buy it again (not cooked long enough IMHO). Don't get a discount either  ;D

I was more worried about the landfill content for future generations here.

The rubbish ploughed into the earth way back in my grandparents time would probably chuck up a few bottles and the odd rusty can or two - but it's this non biodegradeable stuff that's worrying me now.

[telboy]

Hi ninnyscrops,
I agree on your points. My grief is with packaging. I nag our local Tesco but it gets worse!
Veg. items that are free of packaging are as rare as rocking horse s***. Only trouble is when you 'pick your own', every other shopper has been there with their dirty hands, poking/squeezing. I don't think the ordinary shopper knows that Supermarket veg. is bred/grown/sprayed to look the same.
Good we grow our own 'innit?

[ninnyscrops]

Just something that came up on local telly too.....................

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7655934.stm

Ninnyscrops

[Busby]

Here in Switzerland, just in case you're interested, everything has long ago been planned and executed in the usual exemplary fashion.

There are next to no landfill sites in the country as almost every community/council has a central depot where all normal rubbish is incenerated. This 'normal' rubbish has to be put into plastic bags on which are printed the name of the community and have to be bought (at cash desks in shops) and cost about £1 each. These are then (in most cases) put into a large designated container by the householder and collected twice a week. Anything not in the right bag won't be taken or comes back to the householder who didn't do his/her thing properly - if there are any clues in the bag.

All other stuff; pet bottles, bottles, glass, eletrical apliances, metal, newspapers etc., is taken down to the communal rubbish centre which is supervised and managed by people who have difficulties in life so allowing them to earn a little money. Objects such a matresses, chairs, etc., are put onto scales and a small charge is accordingly requested.

But for us allotment holders there is a process much more interesting. All green stuff from the green containers is now used to obtain gas for suitable cars and lorries. There are quite a lot around now all over the place and many councils are buying or adapting there fleets to use this composted gas. At the end of the day there is a big pile of beautiful, clean and pasteurised compost that can be taken away free by local citizens.

I've now been using this on my beds since 2005 with wonderful results. I usually mix it with my own compost first and use it now in autumn to thickly cover the beds for the winter - in spring there's no more need to turn the earth over.

marvellous.

[thifasmom]

WOW :o Busby very impressed by the Switzerland's government refuse scheme, do you know how long it has been functioning, or when a greener way of dealing with refuse started to be implemented as i am sure it all didn't happen at the sametime.

[Busby]

Well, thifasmom, the general rubbish procedure has been in place for many years now. The green rubbish was at one time collected as today but then processed much as it is now, packed into sacks and offered for sale. Very few people bought any so there was quickly a mountain of compost - handing the whole process over to the 'gasmakers' was the best financial solution and freed the council for other things.

We also have a monthly old newspaper collection. The first saturday of each month is newspaper day. Old papers are simply bundled and tied and get collected by lorries from every point by those groups interested in earning a little money at the end of the day.

[thifasmom]

Busby, i take it then that collection days are stated and anyone wanting to make extra cash can collect to be delivered to the recycling point, do the collectors have licenses. how do they prevent them fly tipping, etc.

[Busby]

Let's not get mixed up! In our road collection (for example) the days for the collection of filled plastic bags are Tuesdays and Fridays. For green waste it's Thursday. These bags and the green waste all go into large containers into which we put our waste and that are lifted automatically into the rubbish lorries. The green containers have built-in electronic chips and as they are lifted into the lorry they are weighed and registered and at the end of the year the council sends a bill to the house/flat/landlord owners who include the cost of waste disposal in the annual bill. These aren't great amounts and are gauged simply to cover the cost of waste collection.

If we have anything big to be got rid of and can't take it to the incendiary centre we can buy a corresponding sticker from the council offices with a date and just put it out to be collected as arranged.

The newspapers are collected by groups who need money (Scouts, Sport Clubs, etc.) and they are instructed about the mode of collection. For instance all newspapers have to be tied, all cardboard and boxes have to be flat and tied too and nothing is taken if put out in carrier bags.

Everything is quite strict, controlled and the economics play a major role, we have a workable motto - whoever causes anything has to pay for it.

We have very little fly tipping and anyone caught has to pay a hefty fine.

On our allotments burning rubbish isn't allowed (a hefty fine again), the idea being that everything can be composted. Anything that is in the way goes to the rubbish dump - including stones, bricks and wood and suchlike that isn't wanted on the allotment.

That's why we have it nice....

[thifasmom]

Busby thanks for clearing that up for me I'm very impressed by the efficiency of it all. i know the government over here has been talking about micro chipping bins, but it seemes it was more towards scolding individuals. one of the concerns of the populace re micro chipping was the possibility of unscrupulous persons putting their rubbish into their neighbours bins to dodge fines that may occur from ungreen practices re refuse, is that ever a problem on your side and are there any downsides/ negatives re Switzerland refuse collection schemes.

thanks for replying :).

[katynewbie]

Really interesting thread, am tempted to copy/paste and send it all to my council to give them some decent ideas!

;)

[ninnyscrops]

Busby - wonderful input :)

I watched "The One Show" on the beeb tonight and saw that some of those plastic milk/drinks bottles were washed, chipped, cooked and pressed into plastic sheets (amazing patterns very 60's) and a guy had made guitars out of them!

Surely there must be a way of "cooking" all the other plastic bits and making them into useable objects  ???

Ninnyscrops

[Busby]

To reply to your question about 'downsides' of Swiss waste schemes thifasmom; I can't think of any - at least not of anything that really counts. No matter what your refuse problem is there's an answer. As for throwing rubbish into other people's containers - well, I've never heard of that, the few cents saved are hardly worth the trouble.

What has often struck me when reading British newspapers is the difficulty the British have of separating that which is good for the community and 'freedom'. I say this because we have a political system which is probably the best in the world but we still have tight rules and regulations to which each individual is expected to adhere.  I'm pretty sure that this is because each community knows that it can only function if everyone pulls their weight - for example the allotment holders are expected to each serve 10 hours per year to looking after the paths, fences, weeds, water pipes, etc. Any hours missed are billed and the money goes into the allotment kitty. Allotments that are abandoned (death, old age, or whatever) are then kept in a decent condition by mutual efforts until a new holder is found.

When I say 'we' I mean that although I am from London I have integrated myself completely into the cultural life here - I've been here 40 years and 35 of those I've spent happily on my allotment. I'm not the only Brit with an allotment here and Zurich is nowadays full of people from all corners of the British Isles.

ninnycrops talks of recycling plastic; I think we don't realize just how much stuff is recycled about which we know nothing.

And katynewbie should do that - send such ideas to the local council I mean...

[thifasmom]

What has often struck me when reading British newspapers is the difficulty the British have of separating that which is good for the community and 'freedom'. I say this because we have a political system which is probably the best in the world but we still have tight rules and regulations to which each individual is expected to adhere.  I'm pretty sure that this is because each community knows that it can only function if everyone pulls their weight - for example the allotment holders are expected to each serve 10 hours per year to looking after the paths, fences, weeds, water pipes, etc. Any hours missed are billed and the money goes into the allotment kitty. Allotments that are abandoned (death, old age, or whatever) are then kept in a decent condition by mutual efforts until a new holder is found.

Busby i so agree with you, it baffles me when i see they way people seem to be comfortable with making waste and act so hard pushed to make small changes that would benefit everyone, but here lies the crux of the situation the modern man seems to like the idea of just living for himself but somehow wants to reap the benefits of a community :-\.

I'll probably get shot down for this, but the majority of the populace in the UK knows generally what needs to be done to improve the environment as whole (but for debate sake we'll stick to the topic of waste removal), but most are to lazy to actually do what needs to be done and when or if the government decides to enforce a particular scheme or action, there are loud shouts of nanny state, invasion of right &/ privacy, etc.

when the populace act as children IE unable or unwilling to take responsibility for their actions, how surprising is it that the government decides to act as the parent and simply make an unbending rule. as my mum use to tell me; you reap what you sow.....

[cornykev]

Thanks again Busby for your input, our council here in Enfield recycle to a point but I still find myself throwing stuff away that should be recycled. They tell you no to yogurt pots, plastic bags and food packaging, they except plastic drink bottles and make fleeces from these, we are still miles behind you in Switzerland. Thifasmom no shooting down here, your bang on about the laziness, I have mates who won't recycle, its the dustmans job not mine that's why I pay my council tax, or I'm not wasting my time washing stuff out, just throw it in your washing up water after you've finished your dishes I'd say, but I think I've got most of them changing their habits. Great thread Ninny.  ;D ;D ;D

[ninnyscrops]

Well it's "bin day" tomorrow - our green garden waste bin is going out (too twiggy for me to put up at the plot, loads of laurel trimmings that they can bake it faster than me  :) ), cans and plastics (I put ALL my plastics in there recycleable or not - it's up to those that recycle it to shout "Can't we do something with all this other stuff) - no household waste, perhaps next week for that.

What were Bakerlite phones made from in the old days????

I can remember the scouts recycling bundled papers but as we have a collection every other week for that I assume it's going into the council coffers - prob a bit of H & S for the scouts to collect it anymore!

Ninnyscrops

[Carol]

Good old Switzerland, they know how to do it.   I recycle all I can and seem to be constantly looking for the triangle on the bottom of packaging.  My council takes yogurt pots, plastic bags and I too put in most of the plastic trays we get our food in.  I think it is time the food manufacturers made it easier for us.  Either cut down the amount of packaging with food or make the plastic trays, tubs out of the plastic that can be recycled by the majority of the population. 

[thifasmom]

Good old Switzerland, they know how to do it.   I recycle all I can and seem to be constantly looking for the triangle on the bottom of packaging.  My council takes yogurt pots, plastic bags and I too put in most of the plastic trays we get our food in.  I think it is time the food manufacturers made it easier for us.  Either cut down the amount of packaging with food or make the plastic trays, tubs out of the plastic that can be recycled by the majority of the population. 

this was going to be my next question Busby, do manufactures help the situation by reducing the amount or type of packaging they use to make it easier to reduce waste. and are businesses also expected to recycle or dispose their waste in an environmentally responsible way.

this thread certainly is a good one.

and thanks cornykev :)