Pedant's Corner

[valmarg]

As dear old Winston Chruchill said 'Two nations divided by a common language' is exactly how the US and UK are.  ;D

According to my Oxford Dictionary of Quotations, the possible originator of this quote is George Bernard Shaw, being the pedant that I am. ;D ;D

valmarg

[valmarg]

[valmarg]

.....something else we imported to the USA where it's still alive and well AND I WANT IT BACK, please,.....is...
]z[/b]

Oh dear, A_M, I am going to be a real, total absolute and utter pedant here.  We do not import to the USA, we export. ;D

valmarg

[GrannieAnnie]

yes, we have ill-gotten gains of course

another thing - as we are a small country and things change fast, and you are a large one and things change slowly, the idea is that you still have people speaking the language of, or  at least, the accent of, Shakespeare - Google-meister suggests they're in the Carolinas. How cool is that?

"fear no more the heat o'the sun,
nor the furious winter's rages.... how's that in a Carolina accent?

Enlighten me. What precisely has changed fast in England?

[Rhubarb Thrasher]

I mean, or rather people who know about these things mean, that the way we speak in Britain changes a lot, much more quickly than in America,
so some of your accents "may" be closer to the way we spoke (or other immigrant communities) hundreds of years ago

http://everything2.com/node/744955
pinch of salt needed perhaps

A very brief sketch of a few major American accents and the groups of immigrants that contributed to some of their their major characteristics:
New England = East Anglian Puritans
Midwest, (such as Chicago) = German immigrants
Northern Midwest (Wisconsin and Minnesota) = German and Scandinavian
Parts of New York City = Italian, Irish, and Eastern European immigrants
Southern seaboard (such as Carolinas, Georgia) = West Country English (This was Shakespeare's English)
Appalachia (notably Tennesee and Kentucky) = Scotch-Irish immigrants from Northern Ireland (This accent is what Americans hear in Country Music)
Deep South = perhaps some influence from West African languages via slaves (although this is still hotly debated)
California - Californian and other western accents are especially interesting, if difficult to analyze because the region has recently had a massive influx of transplants from all over the US. One theory is that the California accent tends to neutralize the more extreme or unusual features of other regional dialects, creating a sort of bland, unoffensive homogenous mix. This process is supported by Hollywood's disdain for anyone with a strange accent - most movie stars and TV personalities have to learn a certain type of neutral accent

[Emagggie]

My head hurts.

[Hyacinth]

Valmarg...... :-[ ::)

;D

[star]

Grannie Annie said........"Enlighten me, what precisely has changed fast in England?"




I guess the weather, mostly ;D ;D ;D

[asbean]

Yes, we can get all four seasons in one day  :o :o :o :o :o

[GrannieAnnie]

Rhubarb Thrasher, I made the mistake of trying to quickly read  the article you posted which lead me on to additional articles by a Frenchman on how to pronounce an "R" in America, etc. Half an hour later... I'm still reading interesting and complex stuff.  Accents are fascinating, and I cannot resist asking complete strangers where they're from (not good manners, I know). Whether or not our accents are changing rapidly is up to discussion. My feeling solely based on conversations is that folks are usually proud of their local dialect, unless they are trying to escape from their origins, so why change?

this whole topic reminds me of "My Fair Lady." the Rhine in Spine stays Minely on the Plines. I think she's got it!

[Rhubarb Thrasher]

that piece had someting about the Bostonian accent- that it was an urban myth that they had deliberately tried to copy the English accent in the 19th century (and failed miserably - like Dick Van d**e in Mary Poppins). We have a tame Bostonian on the Tv here, and don't he talk funny though. Is that right? Bostonians talk really strangely?

[GrannieAnnie]

Yes, they have  dropped the "R" in the ends of words so "car" is "kah", but not only in Boston. We know a couple families that moved here from Maine and they speak the same way. 

The article you posted only scratches the surface of the complexity of accents here which it stated at the beginning.  Eg. In our tiny state at the north end my name is pronounced "Anne" with a long A but at the southern end you might hear  it with two syllables: "A-yun."  We pronounce "water" as "wah-derr" but 45 min. away in Philadelphia you might hear "wuh-derr". We always teased my mother who was Pennsylvania Dutch raised about 2 hrs drive from here for pronouncing "hotdog" with the emphasis on the second syllable and with an upswing in the voice making it always sound like a question.

[OllieC]

Words cannot describe the disappointment I felt when I discovered that the septics pronounce Basil & Oregano correctly... and we're wrong!

[GrannieAnnie]

Words cannot describe the disappointment I felt when I discovered that the septics pronounce Basil & Oregano correctly... and we're wrong!

I'm sorry the skeptics went septic.

[GrannieAnnie]

.....something else we imported to the USA where it's still alive and well AND I WANT IT BACK, please,.....is......
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the
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z

Had you realiz(s)ed that?

My mate'n'me's gotta Save the Zed Society, 'cept that he calls it the "Save the Zee Society"...  ;D

When did the Zee become endangered? Seems to be alive and well here.

[OllieC]

Words cannot describe the disappointment I felt when I discovered that the septics pronounce Basil & Oregano correctly... and we're wrong!

I'm sorry the skeptics went septic.

What would a skeptic tank be useful for though?  ;)

[GrannieAnnie]

Words cannot describe the disappointment I felt when I discovered that the septics pronounce Basil & Oregano correctly... and we're wrong!

I'm sorry the skeptics went septic.

What would a skeptic tank be useful for though?  ;)

A lovely idea- put all skeptics  in a tank to bother each other. ;D

[Rhubarb Thrasher]

My last post was censored! Dick seems to be OK, but not the other word.

we have a thing here, which of course you do too, that certain accents suggest things about the character of the speaker. London accents are untrustworthy. Scottish accents (but not Glasgow) suggest proffessionalism (they are probably a doctor). Birmingham (Ozzie Osbourne) suggest stupidity - mind you someone from Birmingham said recently that anyone hearing  a Brum accent automatically has zero expectations, so that if they can string two words together, they're taken for a genius. A Liverpool accent is a good thing (if you remember the Beatles) and a bad thing otherwise (drug dealers and car thieves). Manchester is the same as Liverpool, minus the beatles and the sense of humour. A west country accent is for yokels - the leader of Britain's failed mission to Mars had a strong West Country accent, so you knew it was going to end in disaster - this man isn't a rocket scientist! He should be driving a tractor!. A Yorkshire accent is probably a good thing though it also suggests bloody-mindedness and a general bolshie attitude. My favourite accent is the Geordie (newcastle) accent. For some reason it makes women sound really sexy, and when a man speaks it, everything he says sound funny (in a good way)
Have I missed offending anyone?

I have no accent by the way (of course)

[GrannieAnnie]

My last post was censored! Dick seems to be OK, but not the other word.

we have a thing here, which of course you do too, that certain accents suggest things about the character of the speaker. London accents are untrustworthy. Scottish accents (but not Glasgow) suggest proffessionalism (they are probably a doctor). Birmingham (Ozzie Osbourne) suggest stupidity - mind you someone from Birmingham said recently that anyone hearing  a Brum accent automatically has zero expectations, so that if they can string two words together, they're taken for a genius. A Liverpool accent is a good thing (if you remember the Beatles) and a bad thing otherwise (drug dealers and car thieves). Manchester is the same as Liverpool, minus the beatles and the sense of humour. A west country accent is for yokels - the leader of Britain's failed mission to Mars had a strong West Country accent, so you knew it was going to end in disaster - this man isn't a rocket scientist! He should be driving a tractor!. A Yorkshire accent is probably a good thing though it also suggests bloody-mindedness and a general bolshie attitude. My favourite accent is the Geordie (newcastle) accent. For some reason it makes women sound really sexy, and when a man speaks it, everything he says sound funny (in a good way)
Have I missed offending anyone?

I have no accent by the way (of course)

Since we're not familiar with all those areas, I guess we're not as prejudiced as you against them. Here I'd say people with a southern accent often don't sound too bright, also too sugary, both of course complete, off-course nonsense.

[Rhubarb Thrasher]

no i'm not prejudiced. It was meant to be funny, but with just the tiniest grain of truth. I moved to Cornwall when I was about 7, from Liverpool, and they had be doing the readings in the Methodist Chapel, because they thought I sounded posh! If that isn't the funniest thing

[GrannieAnnie]

no i'm not prejudiced. It was meant to be funny, but with just the tiniest grain of truth. I moved to Cornwall when I was about 7, from Liverpool, and they had be doing the readings in the Methodist Chapel, because they thought I sounded posh! If that isn't the funniest thing

Yes, I took it as humorous. Saying "prejudiced" was a bit too strong but couldn't think of another suitable word...an estrogen deficiency moment. ::)