Need help planning our plot

[Producer]

Hi Ive been trying to plan my plot using excel and a list of veg we want to grow, but seeing as we've never grown anything before we are finding it difficult to know how much room we need for each bed and whether or not we need to stick to four beds for rotation - can you have five that rotate??

Basically our plot is only a quarter sized one - 75 yards - its long and narrow; just over 4 meters by 15 meters.  We want a shed at one end with a wee bit of lawn and then small strip of herbs.  At the other end we will put compost and manure.  And the rest will be made up of paths and beds.  My first plan had two paths down each side and one down the centre, not the best use of space, but symetrical.  But this would mean 4 beds would be approximately sized at 1.25 m by 3.5 m.  I presuming this is a lot smaller than most peoples.  Is it too small? Will it be OK for two people? 

With a bit of redesigning I can increase the overall size a little bit by taking out the central path and making them wider, just above 1.5 meters.  We would have liked a small static bed for asparagus and artichoke, but this would have to be smaller then the rest of beds - would this simply be too small?

Hope someone can help, thanks.

[Producer]

[Barnowl]

More than four beds is definitely ok,  but some crops don't really need to rotate: for instance most people don't rotate runner beans, Jerusalem artichokes and definitely not asparagus.

[kt.]

Just posted some help to your inbox ;)

[Producer]

Why do the books say a rotation of four areas / beds?  Surely you can have any number and rotate them?

Anyway, in terms of my quarter plot, do beds that are sized at 1.2 meters by 3.5 seem ok or two small? I have no comprehension of how sizes relate to number of plants.  Basically, after a shed and other things I can manage about four beds at the aforementioned sizes to cater for onions, roots, legumes and fruiting veg.  Also could have a slightly smaller bed (1 meter by 3 meters) for asparagus and artichokes.  Did this all seem OK.

Also, would a thin strip of about 2.75m by 0.75 m be OK for a small herb bed?

I could make the beds slightly bigger by cutting down on paths but thought it would be handy to have paths running down each side of the allotment and down the centre, though as said its narrow and long - 4 m by 15m approx.

[saddad]

Sounds fine for a herb bed... at only 4M I wouldn't have 3 paths... make the central one wide enough for the barrow and just to walk on the outside ones...
:-\

[Deb P]

I agree with Saddad, I think 3 paths is too much, one central path will do!

To give you some ideas, my plot is divided into two uneven halves, one about 21’ (sorry, can’t ‘think’ in metric!) wide with raised beds, the other approx 16’ wide which has ‘long rows’. All beds are 4’ wide; this is the maximum that I can easily reach into the centre of the bed to work the middle…your arms might be longer!

The raised beds are all 8’ long; only because that was how long the free pallet timber we could get hold of was. I can fit two raised beds side by side on the wider side, 12 altogether which gives me four beds for three different rotation groups; this is the right hand side of my plot last Jan so you can see the layout clearly. I also have a permanent herb bed at the front of the plot, planted with some rosemary bushes and underplanted with allsorts...



The left hand side has evolved as ‘long rows’ now divided into 4’ wide beds with narrow woodchip paths between them. I use them for another two rotation groups, so five altogether. This photo was taken last September:




I can also recommend Caroline Foley’s book ‘How to plant your Allotment’ for suggested plot layouts and recommended planting layouts and distances for different veg;

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Plant-Your-Allotment-Caroline-Foley/dp/1845376161/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201598614&sr=8-2

Hope this has given you some ideas! ;D

[Barnowl]

3 ft can be a bit narrow - two large brassicas won't fit alongside one another. From this and previous posts, most people using raised beds seem to end up with around 4ft wide.

I have 5 main beds and the rest are a variety

[Barnowl]

As you can see the left hand side went according to plan - the right hand side has ended up a bit chaotic!

[Tee Gee]

Just a point in terms of beds and rotation.

There is nothing to say you cant use one end of a bed one year and the other end the next year if it is going to help your rotational system.

What I am saying is a bed can be split up as much as you like meaning that someone with one bed by careful planting can divide it into three and rotate.

So if you have say three or four beds  this could be treated as effectively as 9 & 12 beds respectively  if you like.

[Producer]

These replies have been really useful.  It sounds like the width of my propsoed beds are sufficient - 1.25 meters. By narrowing the two side paths for just walking (leaving the central one for a wheelbarrow) I can increase the widths of these beds to about 1.5 m. 

I can only fit in four beds and their lengths will be about 3.5 meters.  So the question can a bed of 1.5m by 3.5m produce an amount of veg worth growing.  Likewise, if I split the beds, to increase the number of families, but Im presuming this really would be too small a place - 1.5 meters by 1.75 meters.  I have to say I will probably have two small static beds about 1.5x1.75 for perennial veg.

Deb, your pics were really helpful, but even though your beds dont look too different in size to mine, you have three times as many, thus having four beds per family!  How much does that yeild?!  By the way do u have paving slabs for paths in your photo?

How do I include my excel plan within a post Barnowl? And what are the brown thin sections at the end of your beds?

[Deb P]

I inherited a narrow concrete path down the middle, all the other beds are wood shavings waste from my carpenter OH covered with free council donated woodchips that we have had delivered to the site in the past year.

With any bed system you need to plan really well to keep your beds as productive as possible. This means utilising catch cropping, serial sowing, companion planting etc so the soil is always planted up with something else the moment a plant is harvested. This means I grow a lot of my plants in modules; sometimes just four cabbages or six cauliflowers, but a small amount regularly allowing for some extras when plants fail due to an unexpected frost or insect/slug damage.

Do I produce enough? We are not totally self sufficient in veg, but I grow what we like to eat and we eat it at the peak of its freshness.! It may sound obvious, but there is no point growing a lot of something that will be ready all at the same time if you can help it when your space is limited, unless you have a huge freezer and plan to freeze the lot. Whilst I've been at home these past couple of weeks I've been finalising my planting plans for this year; I already knew what rotation groups were going where, I've been working out a sowing scheme that keeps the ground planted up for a long as possible, working out roughly when things are harvested and what will take its place.

This is the plot in late June last year;




And again in late September:



You can see where the potatoes were harvested on the left, and I made beds that were immediately planted with marrows and squashes at different stages so not all ready at the same time. Where the shallots were harvested from the first two raised beds on the right I planted late flowers such as sunflowers, calendula and zinnias, which kept us in flowers until November.

As Tee Gee suggests, sometimes I split my raised beds into different rotation groups; last year I didn't need as much room for brassicas, so one of the four brassica beds were planted with strawberries, and half another legume bed was carrots; I just keep a note of what went where to keep the rotation correct.

[Producer]

Thanks for the tips on rotation, I see what your saying about flexibility in terms of splitting beds and things.

You lost me a bit when you said "With any bed system you need to plan really well to keep your beds as productive as possible. This means utilising catch cropping, serial sowing, companion planting etc so the soil is always planted up with something else the moment a plant is harvested. "  Are you saying as soon as somethings harvested you have already planned to re-plant?  Why is this so essential with beds?  Any disadvantage to beds lying dormant for a while? 

[manicscousers]

weeds will take up residence is you leave your beds unoccupied, better to grow something you can eat  ;D

[Tee Gee]

Unlike many others I don't have my beds surrounded in timber,I did many many moons ago but it rotted and I sometimes found it a bit of a nuisance.

Now I just form my beds as seen here; http://tinyurl.com/29w9my and leave the plants to get on with it.

I don't think plants are much bothered if they have a nice border around them  ::) I think that if the ground is well prepared and the plants are kept moist and well fed they will perform as well as any other. ;D

[Barnowl]

How do I include my excel plan within a post Barnowl? And what are the brown thin sections at the end of your beds?

I used a screen capture program called ScreenHunter (the free version) which allows you to save what you capture as a jpg file

http://wisdom-soft.com/products/screenhunter.htm

The thin brown beds are mainly used for herbs, chillies and flowers - they are a bit under 2 ft wide. The only disadvanrage is that by having beds up against one another the small crack in between is impossible to get at for weeding/de-slugging etc  so if I did it again  I probably would just have the outer edge of the area bordered rather than boxing it all in.

[Kea]

I just have to say, wow! what a lovely plot Deb, I've just gone green with envy!

[Barnowl]

I just have to say, wow! what a lovely plot Deb, I've just gone green with envy!

Agreed - it's beautifully done

[Deb P]

Unlike many others I don't have my beds surrounded in timber,I did many many moons ago but it rotted and I sometimes found it a bit of a nuisance.
I don't think plants are much bothered if they have a nice border around them  ::) I think that if the ground is well prepared and the plants are kept moist and well fed they will perform as well as any other. ;D

I totally agree, edgings to beds are not essential at all, but when I took the plot over in August 2006 it was just a couch grass meadow, and quite a task to sort out. I felt it was a bit easier to concentrate my efforts in clearing and improving specific manageable portions of the soil by making the raised beds so I felt I was getting to grips with the plot and it looked neater and kept the path shreddings in their place. 

Also from a maintenance point of view, as I work full time (usually!) I find it easy to weed a group of raised beds thoroughly with limited time. I like having the combination of raised beds and unedged 'long rows', stops it looking too overneat and control freakish! ;D

As manicscousers says, weeds will grow if your plants do not; I put plants a bit closer than recommended in the raised beds which also helps suppress weeds and plan to harvest some things like cabbages smaller than full grown as a result. And yes, I do replant recently harvested areas as soon as possible; it makes the best use of the limited space (you can always do with a bit more plot.....) and there is always something else you are tempted to grow......

[manicscousers]

or sow green manures, they'll keep the weeds at bay and build up the nutrients nicely  :)

[twinkletoes]

Hi Director - in case you missed it in the Bargain Galore section - try www.growveg.com
Twinkletoes