Another rant!!

[busy_lizzie]

Because our Site has more and more woman on it, I thought I would explore the idea of a Women's Group, -  just an informal group, where we could socialise with each other, support each other , might visit a few allotments or gardens together, share expertise; one of the woman has a diploma in horticulture, anothor an interest in herbs and wild life, that sort of thing. The men don't seem interested in doing anything like that, so thought as woman tend to like mixing I would see what the demand was. I didn't get around everyone but 18 out of 25 women I did speak to were interested,I had yet to contact another 12.  So tonight at the Committee Meeting I thought I would mention it in AOB just out of courtesy, as I didn't think it would affect the Society in any way, and thought no one would mind

However, when I mentioned it, the Chairman raised his hands in a blocking movement and said in a stern voice, "absolutely not"  >:( and he went on to say how disappointed and shocked he was with me for approaching people. :o  That I had no right or jurisdiction to do it. That you can't have groups, and that we are all equal, and there wasn't an old mans group, nor a labour party group, etc etc. He continued about how devisive it was and if woman weren't satisfied then they should join the committee and make changes that way. That it would just cause trouble!  :o

I was absolutely astounded,   :o as I wasn't expecting such a violent reaction to what I thought was a very informal innocent social group.  It seemed to me an utterly harmless get together and the idea that it would be somehow subversive and trouble making seemed ludicrous to me.  The other men were a bit non committal but sided with the Chairman who is very authoritarian. I am one of three woman on the committee and they also had thought the idea was a good one, so we all had the wind taken out of our sails! It was inferred that social gatherings on site or BBQ's or anything else of a social nature was not to be encouraged. So what do you think of that?  Would be interested to hear your comments and what is allowed on your Site.  :( busy_lizzie

[busy_lizzie]

[Robert_Brenchley]

It sounds as though the chairman felt threatened by it. I've seen this sort of thing before; people are allowed too much power for too long, get to do what they like, and they're scared of anyone new coming along doing anything. I very much doubt whether the comittee has any authority to stop you, so just go ahead and do it. Then use it to get him out of office.

[SMP1704]

Sounds like a GOG to me (Grumpy Old G*t)

I think one way to overcome his objections about equality, is to just have it as a social group, rather than a women's group, although it sounds as if it will be mostly women who will participate.  Start small and informal, perhaps become the holder of the biscuit tin and kettle ;) so that people naturally gather and  then chat.

It is probably easier to slowly chisel away rather than try to confront him.

Good luck and keep smiling

[Heldi]

Oooh I'm livid  >:(  What a prize prat he sounds.  Balls to him!!!

  What I thought when I read this BL was that I know a few of the men on my site get together for fishing trips at the weekend...alot work together and many of them drink/socialise together.

I think your idea is a brilliant one and not at all different from the activities that the blokes do on my site.  Therefore the only thing I can think of different is the fact you said it was for the women? He certainly seemed to take great issue with that!

I think Robert has probably hit the nail on the head regarding power and him being threatened.

So what if you had a coffee morning with some friends from the site for example? Is that not allowed?!! Who is he to say who you can socialise with?

[moonbells]

Why not propose an Organic Gardening section? He can't say no there, surely...

I'll bet most of the organic gardeners are female (and vice versa) - it is at our lotties! Then go from there...

moonbells

[froglets]

I used to work in manufacturing and eventually ( with age) got a good working relationship with my colleagues.  They always included me in the invitations to the footie, and the beer bust sessions etc, and I always included them in the invitations to the candle parties and health spa days and flower shows etc.

Odd how I always politely declined their kind invitations & they declined mine, but the offers were always equally open to all   ;D

[busy_lizzie]

Thank you very much for your comments!! I have been quietly fuming all night about it!  Robert, I think you are so right; this man in particular is the most rigid and authoritarian person I have ever met, who also wants every query from our members referred to him or the committee (in other words him!! because he dominates everything) which sounds like a "power" thing to me too.  He is a bitter and mean spirited man who, if your working on your plot doesn't even acknowledge you when he passes you by.  

I agree, SMP, and I wish that I hadn't thought it good manners to mention it, and just gone ahead with what is, just a little social group.   :-X Of course afterwards you can always think of how you should have replied, and when he said that I had no right to approach people; if only I had mentioned that we did still have free speech in this country and that it is natural and a sociable thing to do, to chat with people, and swap ideas and interests when you see them on the plot.....it's what you call being friendly!!  ::)

I think you are right too Heldi!  This man is  a typical MCP and the thought of woman gathering even socially...well, the fact that they are allowed allotments is probably a great concession to the 21st century in his eyes!!
The trouble is all the other men just follow in his direction and nobody disagrees with him openly. Initially I e-mailed the Secretary to let him know I was going to mention it, and he replied that he thought it was a great idea and fantastic if it got off the ground, but at the meeting he was struck dumb and never lifted his head from his notes. So I would be interested to see whether, if he saw more than 10 woman gathering on a plot, he would call out the riot police or the terrorist squad?

Froglet, There are probably little social unofficial happenings all over the site which we don't know about - I know some of the men meet in the pub, but they are very inclusive, but we would be delighted for men to join in, and I think I made that clear.  I think there is little chance of the Chairman being ousted at the moment, - no one would be prepared to take a stand against him. To say something positive about him, since he came into "power", our Site is much tidier and  better organised, because people wouldn't dare not be.  I fully expected detention or a suspension given to me last night at the meeting.  ::) I suppose we could form a secret society and still do our thing surreptitiously.  Can only put his behaviour down to something like being potty trained too early, for him being this way, but definitely a difficult childhood that has made him so bitter and twisted!!  :D Sorry for the long post, but at least I have been able to let off steam! Thanks!! busy_lizzie

[Heldi]

Oooh that is another thing that rankles with me...men who don't agree with bullies like that power crazed chairman of yours but don't say anything. All it would have taken was a "Well actually I think it's quite a good idea" from one man to take the wind out of his sails.

I worked with some right horrible sods but it annoyed me more that the guys who didn't agree with them would say so to me afterwards in some kind of way of support but not to to the beggars themselves,which would have been the greatest support of all. Makes you feel deflated.

Its just not right to be shouted down,made to feel like an idiot,embarrassed, knowing that there are some who actually agree with you.  Grrrr!!!!

Good job I'm not on your site I'd be having words heehee! (and not nice ones!)

[Alimo]

I don't really see how he can stop you from socialising.

If I were you his attitude would make me more keen to get something off the ground.  Bluddy cheek of the man.

Alison

[lottief]

A social group sounds like a great idea!

However, I think its a pity you felt that the social group should be limited to women.

There may be many men on your site who would be just as interested in garden visits etc and have just as much experience to share or areas of special interest and expertise.

If they don't want to join in fine, they don't have to but why are you excluding them?

[jennym]

When's the next committee meeting BL? Maybe a good idea to prepare your strategic plan for dealing with this person as soon as possible.

What an absolute fool this man is. And what cowards are the men that just stay quiet. I'm fuming here on your behalf, having only just read this post.

If I was you, I'd just do it - pick something to do, invite everyone though (my experience is the same as froglets) - tell the women why you are inviting everyone - and let him know you've invited everyone too. And don't invite him.

[lorna]

"Doesn't even acknowledge you when he passes by"..... He obviously suffers from bad manners as well as thinking he is King of the castle. I bet he is one of those who is always complaining about the youth of today not knowing good manners!!
Do your thing and go ahead, as you say free speech and what possible harm can he see in people trying to socialise in  a  friendly manner?
Lorna.

[djbrenton]

I may be a tad more assertive than some but if it were me I'd just go ahead. The Committee have no right to forbid any sector of the tenants from arranging get togethers. As far as being divisive is concerned, would it be out of order if there were a fishing club or bowls team from the site? Of course not. All social interaction is to be encouraged as it increases the community spirit. I suspect worries about women having ideas is at the root of his problem.

[Curryandchips]

And what cowards are the men that just stay quiet.

I am obviously a coward too then, for I used to stand up and speak out, often on behalf of the little guy. Eventually it cost me my career, as well as considerable disruption on this site too.

Now I prefer to just be silent, and let others do the fighting.

I agree with your disgust BL, and the general concensus of this thread. I hope you see a way forward to develop your group.

[Leonnie]

Busy-lizzie I think a social group is a great idea and well done for taking the initiative for organising it so far. I do think you should leave it open for anyone to take part, not only the women at your site. :)

[busy_lizzie]

Ah!! You have all made me feel so much better.  Thank you so much for your support - it means a lot! I shall print it all out and read it when I am feeling stressed. I think I should have done what Moonbells suggested and just had a group for organic gardeners or something. We would love men to join too. I saw one of my lottie friends today and she said we should just go ahead and organise something, and what can he do? He can't gives us notice to quit for meeting on the plot surely...disorderly conduct while having a cuppa tea and a biccy?  :D busy_lizzie

[Heldi]

Yay Busy...can I come?! ;D

[Old Central]

Busy-lizzie

To my mind any social grouping should be encouraged (anything to stop me having to dig and allow me to chat with the other plot holders). I would suggest following AB's advice and open up the offer to all and sundry; remember your original suggestion could be seen as deliberately excluding the Chairman.  ;)

I know some Constitutions specify what can be done, I discovered ours even included items that could not be discussed at Meetings. Sorry if this sounds very formal but playing someone who is authoritarian by the rules often delivers the best solution.

However, by pitching an afternoon club or morning club open to all you could probably arrange a time that would outflank a lot of the potential opposition and prove acceptable to those that are interested.

Good luck and hope you get something sorted out.

OC

[busy_lizzie]

Thanks so much for your suggestions.  Have been thinking with a few lottie friends and we have decided we could put a notice on the gates to say that we are doing something and everyone is welcome. That would work and not be divisive.   :D busy_lizzie

[mc55]

sounds like a good plan - hope you get a good response.