Red clover

[redimp]

My red clover has arrived.  Do I have to do anything when I am sowing it or do I just scatter it?  If I just scatter it, how densly scattered should it be and finally will the birds eat it so shouls I cover it after it is sown?

Thanks in advance.

[redimp]

[Moggle]

I would say cover it till it germinates (fleece?), and possibly till it gets a bit established.

I have now had 3 goes at sowing grazing rye (wrong time of year I know, but it was what I had!), and the birdies keep eating it. 1st go just scattered it and raked it over, second go, scattered/covered with compost/raked  (some of these germinated), 3rd go, scattered, then poked the seeds down and covered up.

Next time I will be covering!

Moggle - definitely not an expert on green manure, and happy to be corrected.

[Clayhithe]

I've never used red clover so I'll be interested in how well it works,  especially how easy it is do dig in.

I understand that its a legume with very deep roots,  so plenty of new nitrogen.

I sow broad beans in every bit of spare ground.   Then if I need the space I cut the tops off and leave the roots.   If I don't need the space I harvest the beans. :)

[adrianhumph]

Hi all, :)
             Here are my experiences with green manures :o
1, Alsike clover, very good low growing ,covered beds well, easy to dig in 8)

2, mustard, easy to grow, gets to about 30 cms tall,  easy to dig in  8) can be a problem if you have club root as it is a brassica.

3, field beans, easy to grow, sow about 150cms apart , grew right through the winter no problem, easy to chop off the tops & compost  then leave the roots behind for their nitrogen benifit , also can be left as a crop like broad beans  8)

4,  Alfalfa, slow growing , weeds grew much faster, also deep rooted, a real pain in the **** to dig in,  and  2 Months after digging in the shoots are popping up every where like weeds :'( will not grow this again ::)


                                 Adrian.

[Clayhithe]

Winter field Beans   Vicia faba   Same latin name as broad bean.
Is there a difference,  Adrian?

http://www.kitchengardens.dial.pipex.com/greenmanure.htm#LISTS

Thanks for the info on digging in.

[adrianhumph]

Hi clayhithe, :)
                          They are obviously very closely related, they look exactly the same while growing,  The beans are definitely different, field beans are much smaller than broad beans about a quarter of the size of broad beans  &  are a dark brown colour, I am not that well versed in the technical differences , but I expect one of our more learned friends on the site will know ::)

                                          Adrian.

[philcooper]

Clayhithe,

Field beans are just one (or more) varieties of broad bean being very frost hardy they are good for overwintering.

For maximum results dig the whole plant in not just the roots but remember to wait 3 weeks before sowing seeds - the decomposing vegetation inhibits germination - you're ok with plants or potatoes etc that don't have to germinate.

A really good summer green manure is Phacelia, it grows very quickly to produce feathery foliage (and so smothere weeds) you can leave it to flower and attract beas and hoverfly before digging in if you don't need tyhe ground

Phil

[Sarah-b]

and how soon after digging in can you plant - straightaway?
Would that be suitable to sow now into a empty bed awaiting brassicas?

Thanks,
Sarah.

[Clayhithe]

Thanks Phil and Adrian,  that's useful.

I tend to leave the roots in the ground and put the tops on the compost heap.   I assume that the inhibitory agent will disappear as it composts and that the heap will get some nitrogen.

My hero Geoff (rip) tells me that Phacelia is not a legume,  so I couldn't quite see the point:  something to do with rotation perhaps?

I just hate to leave empty ground :-[

[PREMTAL]

Hi Redclanger,
Did you know that red clover is a great medicinal herb?

THIS PLANT HAS A LONG HISTORY OF USE IN THE TREATMENT AND CURE OF CANCER, BUT IT HAS ALSO
BEEN USED WITH GOOD EFFECT THE ON SKIN 
CONDITIONS ECZEMA AND PSORIASIS.
IT IS WITH OUT DOUBT A GREAT ANALTERATIVE WHICH ALLEVIATES AND CURES MANY PULMONARY DISEASES.

THE FLOWERS CAN BE CUT DRIED AND STORED.

PUT 4 OR 5 DRIED FLOWER HEADS IN A TEA MUG POUR ON BOILING WATER, LEAVE FOR 10 MINUTES, STRAIN AND DRINK.

YOUR HEALTH WILL IMPROVE BY DRINKING THIS TEA ON A REGULAR BASIS.

                                                 PREMTAL

[Roy Bham UK]

Hi PREMTAL and welcome aboard, :)  I read with interest your recipe for red clover herbal tea, are you a keen user of herbal remedies? :)  They sound like they can work wonders, which prompted me to do a Google search and found this that may be a little worrying for women. :o

"The isoflavones isolated from red clover have been studied for their effectiveness in treating some forms of cancer. It is thought that the isoflavones prevent the proliferation of cancer cells and that they may even destroy cancer cells. Laboratory and animal studies have found that red clover isoflavones may protect against the growth of breast cancer cells. This is surprising because estrogens (and isoflavones have estrogenic properties) have generally been thought to stimulate the growth of breast cancer in women. Until further research has been conducted and more information is available, the use of red clover isoflavones or other red clover products should probably be avoided in women with a history of breast cancer."

[redimp]

Hi Premtal - thanks for the advice.  I have an interest in natural remedies - and a couple of books , but do nothave the time to follow it up properly.  If you know a bit about it then keep posting the advice.  :)

Roy - I am neither a woman nor do I have a history of breast cancer but I will bear your warnings in mind.  ;)

[PREMTAL]

Hi Roy,
           I have been using and making herbal remedies for the past thirty odd years.

The research you quote I cannot argue with as I do not know whether the whole plant was used( which is generally the case) or specifically the flowers.

What I rely on is herbal doctrine with hundreds of years of emperical evidence showing the medicinal virtues, benefits and dangers of herbs.

In the case of Red Clover flowers the evidence is that it stimulates the immune system against disease.


                                          Glad to be aboard

                                                PREMTAL

[derbex]

I'm a big fan of phacellia too, easy to grow and no trouble at the end (unless you let it seed -but even then it's not a real problem).

There are other benefits to green manures aside from just fixing nitrogen, such as smothering weeds and protecting the soil structure from rain &c.. Some also bring up minerals from the subsoil.

More at : http://www.hdra.org.uk/organicgardening/grn_mans.htm

(might have to be a member to see it)

Jeremy

[Andy H]

Adrian

Did you mean 150mm apart for the field beans?

Also, I have red clover but googled and googled but all seems farm related. Packet is 100g coverage is 32sq m
How does one guess this ???

IF in rows etc then how far apart would that estimate at?

[Sprout]

I've a bed of red clover. I just broadcast it around without covering it with soil. I then watered it in and nothing else. Did rig up some string with a few CDs dangling to scare of birds and has all worked a treat. Have some phacelia in the next bed too. Did the same with that.

[redimp]

That's about all I am going to do as well.

[Andy H]

OK will do that then

Gonna fill pockets up with holes in and run round the plot ;D