Topic: Plums and damsons in a restricted space - help please!

[oakmore2]

I wonder whether anyone out there may be able to advise me if it is possible to grow plums and damsons as cordons?

I've seen lots of articles on the web on how to prune trees to keep them as cordons, but whenever I decide to go and buy a tree I get freaked out by the label telling me how big they will grow and don't manage to walk out with one! Can you really keep a tree which wants to be tree-sized just 5 or 6 feet high on a cordon just through pruning?

Sorry if I'm sounding a bit dim, just don't want to buy and plant a tree to have to rip out the poor thing if it gets too big!

The two fruits I most want to grow are plums and damsons - anyone have experience of these as cordons? Also, can anyone recommend the best rootstock? I've seen St Julien and Pixy advertised, but don't really know which is best.

Any help gratefully received!!

XX

[realfood]

I would have thought that the best rootstock for growing plums and damsoms as cordons would be Pixy, which is claimed to restrict the final height of a plum to 3 m.

[oakmore2]

Thanks realfood, shall have a look for Pixy then. 3m is still too big for my plot though - will I be able to keep it much smaller successfully through pruning?

[star]

I would imagine you could keep it smaller Oakmore, I think the trick would be to prune it in summer as normal, but not to prune too hard at any one time.

That will be when the tree throws out water shoots, these are growths that grow very fast and straight up and are also non productive.

I will be getting a plum on a Pixie rootstock too, I am more concerned about its spread rather than its 3m height. I will prune out the leading shoot when it gets to the desired height though, we should be okay, dont you think? We will have to compare notes as time goes on ;)

[oakmore2]

Thanks Star, I'm going to give it a go. Having done a bit more investigation I'm thinking of pruning the trees as minarettes rather than cordons or fans to control the spread of the tree, as like you I don't really have room for the spread of two fruit trees.

Will definitely let you know how I get on and will be interested to hear updates from you!

 ;D

[adeymoo]

Oakmore2

Chris Bowers & Sons (check tinternet) sell supercolumns which are basically tall cordons and can be planted 2 feet apart. I asked if Plum/ Gage 'Opal' 'Victoria' 'Coe's Golden Drop' 'Count 'Althanns Gage' 'Early Transparent Gage' 'Denniston's Superb' 'Old Greengage' 'Jefferson' 'Czar' 'Marjories Seedling' were available as columns and they said yes. The columns are £18.95 per tree, £154.50 for 10. At 2 feet apart you could plant in a pot or form a hedge. The key is pruning to maintain a column and not let it spread. Hope this helps.

[star]

Ooh Adeymoo, Im really grateful for your link. Thank you :D

Here we go Oaky, I would like to try a couple of these.............good for comparing notes too ;D ;D

[gwynleg]

Ken Muir does  Duo- MInarettes - which have two different plums on the same tree - dont know if they are any good or not - any one tried them? They are more expensive than the ones from Bowers and Sons at £26 for one and £96 for 4.
I want to buy some minarettes too so shall look at this some more.
 

[jennym]

In my opinion, by far the best way to grow plums in a restricted space is to festoon the tree from the start. This involves tying strings to the branches and bending them over to form a weeping shape and securing the strings to weights on the ground. It helps you keep the tree to a managable height as you can then get to the branches for pruning. I've posted these pics before. The first shows a reasonable example of a mature Victoria plum in a very restricted space close to a fence. It takes up less than 6 ft diameter and crops well. The second picture shows a larger tree that was in the process of being festooned. That takes up 10 ft diameter of space. All my plums,damsons etc are on St.Julien A rootstocks, I'm not keen on Pixy which seems too feeble for the location and soil. I'm also not keen on these duo trees as they always seem to become lopside after a few years because one variety will be more vigorous than the other. Hope this helps.

[ceres]

Ha - now I understand why my apple tree is the shape it is - it's been festooned!  Thanks jenny, a mystery solved.

[Spanner]

I have a couple of plum cordens that I have been growing against a fence in the back garden. The advice I was given when I bought them was that plums can't be pruned as harshly as apples and pears so I needed to allow 2.5ft between them and let them grow out from the fence by the same amount. I have pruned gradually through each summer and have had no problems so far in keeping them restricted. I have not had any fruit yet, although this year I believe it was because the frost got the blossom. Both the trees I have are on the Pixy rootstock.

[oakmore2]

Loads of fabulous advice - many thanks eveyone!

Thanks so much for the link Ademoo - unfortunately I didn't see it until after I placed an order with Ken Muir for the minarette trees. I've opted from one damson and one plum. Looks as though I could have saved some money using the link you posted - but I might get a couple form them too - I do love plums and damsons after all!!

Star - will be happy to share my success or non-success with you. Let me know what you end up opting for!

 ;D

[star]

Thats great OM :D, but your ahead already, I cant afford mine yet :'( :'( :'(

[oakmore2]

That's a bummer :'( :'(
I think I'm a bit ahead of myself tho to be honest as they're not delivering them til Nov/Dec. The Ken Muir trees are available until March I think.
There's always Santa!!  ;)

[star]

Heehee, yes that is soooo true. I haven't written to Santa for years...........good plan that ;D ;D ;D

Thanks for the tip off, I'll pretend Im a little girlie ::) :-\

[adeymoo]

Oakmore2

Ken Muir is a very reputable supplier and therefore will not deliver trees until they are dormant which I hear is getting later and later. Although I noted Chris Bowers for there column trees I have ordered my fruit trees, bushes, strawberries and raspberries from J Tweedie in Dumfries who only do mail order if you phone for a list and due to arrive November. I cannot remember where I got the name from - maybe the RHS online site, but he has supplied the RHS and Gardeners World. His prices are also a bargain if buying bulk (£28 for 70 strawberry plants) but I chose Tweedie because he could supply specific gooseberry bushes I wanted but I think he leaves it to you to prune a tree into a minarette. He can supply all his fruit bushes as single and double cordon that can be planted at 600 centres. Delivery for 24 trees and bushes, 70 strawberry plants, 30 raspberry canes - £9.85 + 65p insurance. Will I get my allotment prepared in time after the last harvest??

Jennym

Your posts on festooning are of great help. I am going to try festooning my prospective plums and prune my apple trees as a splindlebush which also involves tying the branches down to about 30 degrees. A spindle bush is the commercial growers preference for the heaviest crop in the smallest space and these methods would allow for successional picking of fruit as you get the most trees of different varieties in a small space.

[davee52uk]

The man on the next allotment to mine grows plums as a cordon along his fence. These are wild plums which grow all over the plots. They seem to take to growing as cordons O.K.

I have grown plums and damsons and tried succesfully to grow them as trees which I could easily pick from - not growing higher than 10 ft. They were both wild varieties which seem to take any amount of abuse in terms of pruning.

Have you thought of growing outdoor grapes in the same way. As long as you don't live to far North you should be O.K. We can grow grapes outside in Warwickshire.

[oakmore2]

Hi Davee52

Thanks for the plum/damson info - it's good tp hear that I should be OK with my trees.

It's funny you should mention grapes - I grew some vines on a fence in my patio at home for the foliage, expecting not to get fruits with them being outdoors - but today have taken several bunches, and surprisingly they are actually quite sweet!
I was really surprised. ;D

[GrannieAnnie]

In my opinion, by far the best way to grow plums in a restricted space is to festoon the tree from the start. This involves tying strings to the branches and bending them over to form a weeping shape and securing the strings to weights on the ground. It helps you keep the tree to a managable height as you can then get to the branches for pruning. I've posted these pics before. The first shows a reasonable example of a mature Victoria plum in a very restricted space close to a fence. It takes up less than 6 ft diameter and crops well.

Do you think festoonig would work on a peach tree? One has sprung up on its own in my veg garden and I've been loath to cut it down just to see if the peaches appear. But it will shade the garden if it gets a normal size.

[star]

I think it would work on any tree GA. ;)