Topic: Theft from a plot, advice needed please......Unwashed, anyone?

[Squash64]

One of our plot holders has grown some lovely onions, with the hope of entering one in our 'heaviest onion' competition next month. 

I had an email from him yesterday to say that the biggest one had been stolen from his plot.  Nothing else was taken, just the one onion.

He is the man who was almost blind last year, with macular degeneration.  I wrote about him at the time.  He has been having treatment, which involves injections into his eyeballs  :o and his sight has improved so much that he is able to drive again.  However, the condition is not cured, and he will eventually go blind.

It is such a shame this has happened and has made us suspicious of people who are probably perfectly innocent.

I'm just wondering if, by some miracle, we caught someone stealing, are we within our rights to evict them?  Or does it have to go through some long drawn-out process involving the court?  Has anyone any experience of something like this?

[grannyjanny]

I don't know if there's a general rule on this Squash but we were told about a person on our site before we were there. The site has houses on 2 sides which overlook us & someone in one of the houses saw someone stealing from a plot & notified the manager & he was evicted. Last year though someone from those same houses was stealing french beans from an 82 year plotholder. We have never even considered taking anything, not even a raspberry that is at mouth height & bashes me as I walk past it. How sad for the person to have put all that work in & not be able to show it. Very sad after what he's been through.

[taurus]

''You mean they would live long enough to get to court !!!!

Talk to you tomorrow about how the Allotments officer here has dealt with something on these lines.

The only thing is to cancel the HO comp so the rat can't enter. But the only trouble with that idea, is everyone else gets to lose out to.
But it might make people sit up and take note that this is what will happen and make them more aware what going on around them.
I wish I had a magic wand to make this all better Squash. Its bad enough when the winged and furry brigade harvest it.  

[betula]

Sabotage amongst competition entrants is not unknown .............the plot thickens.

[pumkinlover]

That's horrible Betty >:( >:( >:(

I think I believe in karma so  it does not bode well for the thief. 
Someone has just had two rows potatoes stolen on our site, but this is particularly sad.

[carbonel11]

You would hope if caught they could be given their marching orders swiftly!

[pumkinlover]

Have you looked at the advice on theft we got at the NSALG training day Betty?
I'm sure it was something which could lead to eviction. BUT you have to catch the thief ???

[Unwashed]

What an utterly wretched thing to happen Squash, but the sad thing is that it does happen.

For argument's sake, say you have evidence that an individual took the onion.  First thing you'd have to do is present the individual with the evidence and give them an opportunity to explain themselves.  Then the committee would need to decide if they believed the individual had done what they were accused of, and if they had whether it was a breach of a condition of tenancy.

As far as I know there's no implied condition of tenancy that a tenant shouldn't steal stuff or generally be antisocial so there would actually need to be a term of the tenancy agreement that could be read to prohibit stealing.  This can be a bit tricky because if the condition is drafted too broadly, such as "the tenant shall not do anything that the committee doesn't like" it would be open to the tenant to argue that the term is unfair and thus unenforceable.  It's also necessary that the rule is either clearly expressed as a condition of tenancy, or else there is a separate clause that says that breaking the rule will forfeit the tenancy - rules that simply say you shouldn't do such-and-such don't in themselves have any teeth unless it's unambiguously clear that the consequence of doing such-and-such can forfeit the tenancy.

But assuming the committee have given the individual a fair hearing with the opportunity to challenge the evidence against her, and that the committee have decided the accusation is proved and that their decision is not grossly unreasonable or perverse, and that whatever the tenant did is in breach of a condition of tenancy, then the committee can immediately forfeit the tenancy.  Note that there is no requirement to give any period of grace or notice.  A period of notice is required to forfeit the tenancy for a rectifiable breach, but not if there's nothing the tenant can do to make ammends.

However, as far as I understand it, it is a requirement of S.146 Law of Property 1925 that the tenant be offered the option of compensating the landlord for the breach.  I'm guessing here that the committee would need to decide what compensation would be reasonable in the circumstances, and unless the amount was grossly unreasonable there wouldn't be any quibbling.  You're quess is as good as mine at what a reasonable fine would be for stealing a prize onion - I wouldn't say £50 was unreasonable understanding the circumstances even though you could buy several hundred weight of onions for that, though it's also possible that a court might not agree.  I really can't say.

Once the tenancy has been forfeit the committee must not do anything to suggest that the tenancy continues, and most especially must not bill the tenant for subsequent rent as that waives the forfeiture.  Even something such as telling the tenant to lock the main gate in compliance with a site rule would likely waive the forfeiture - site rules only apply to tenants, so this action would be taken to indicate that you believe that the tenancy continues and would also waive the forfeiture.

Whether you can actually evict the tenant if thet don't willingly quit their plot depends on whether there's a re-entry clause in the tenancy agreement.  The safest route is to go to court for a possession order if the tenant doesn't just quit when they get the Notice of Forfeiture because even when there is a re-entry clause it's possible to get it wrong and be liable for damages and possibly criminal charges too.

So to re-cap:

It's not necessary to prove in court that someone stole stuff, what matters is that the committee formed a reasonable decision that whatever the tenant did broke a condition of tenancy.  If stealing doesn't actually break a condition of tenancy then the committee can't do anything about it even if the tenant is convicted.

Once the committee has decided that whatever the tenant did breaks a condition of tenancy and is incapable of remedy the committe can forfeit the tenancy immidiately and without notice.

To forfeit the tenancy the committee must write to the tenant saying specifically what clause of the tenancy agreement they have broken.  The letter must also give the tenant the option of paying reasonable compensation to the landlord - but I really have very little idea what compensation would be reasonable - it wasn't the landlord afterall who had her onion stolen, the landlord's loss is actually the damage to the site's reputation, and I don't know how to quantify that - but as long as the committee isn't grossly unreasonable I think it's whatever the committee decides and there's no particular need to explain their reasoning.

[Edit] As always, this is just my understanding.  I'm just a bloke with an allotment and I have no legal training whatsoever, and it's entirely possible that any of the above is utterly and completely wrong.  It should however gove some pointers about where to go to next for some sound advice if necessary.

[Jeannine]

It is disgusting.. what a pathetic individual to have to do something like that. If it was stolen by a potential exhibitor I bet his face gives him away.

Can you take a good close look at the other plots to decide who is likely to win and see there onins in situ, you may get a good idea of what is likely to show up on the day, there are bound to be different varieties shown. If one shows up that was not seen in situ and is the same as the one stolen,,watch his face,,you just may be able to get a good chance of knowing who it is. You can;t do anything on a suspicion but it may be useful to know. Not a witch hunt but perhaps a bit of useful detective work.

Rotten blighter needs to know you know if at all possible.

If there is any justice in the world the stolen onion won't be the biggest and he will lose anyway.

XX Jeannine

[Squash64]

Thanks for the replies- I'll be back later this evening after our Summer Fayre today. 

Unwashed, this made me smile -
I'm just a bloke with an allotment and I have no legal training whatsoever,

 :)

[Digeroo]

Very difficult to prove with one onion.  I carved my initials on the bottom of my pumpkin last year.  Since they were disappearing from around the site..  I also put my initials in morse code on things. 

[cornykev]

Things are always going missing on our site, recently a full lot of runners were stripped, the council have just put a notice up about thefts and closing the gate, and it reads anyone caught stealing will be evicted.
I do help myself to produce, but 4 or 5 of us have an agreement to help ourselves if we are short of certain veggies, I have given the gypsies warning to a few of our lottie holders about wandering about on site, innocent as it is, they could be implicated if seen and something goes missing, I try and educate them before the site sec catches them but I feel it falls on deaf ears.   ??? :-\      :P

[betula]

It is a sad day when you can be a suspect for walking around the Allotment,something I love to do.You can learn a lot this way.

[louise stella]

It is a sad day when you can be a suspect for walking around the Allotment,something I love to do.You can learn a lot this way.

I love walking around with my son - we like to see how other plots are are looking, the guy with the pond, the scarecrow man, the really tidy man, the guy who only grows spuds and the people we know personally and hpw they are getting on!  I'd hate to be seen as "dodgy" for doing that! : (

[bikegirllisa]

Fancy nicking some poor old fella's onion.  That's just pathetic.

[Kleftiwallah]

I should save the cost of a 'phone call to the police,  I lost three full rows (that was as far as they could reach into the onion patch without stepping on the soil).

Result from the police - zilch.  Ditto when reported lots of shed break-ins.   They are all hiding in lay-by's filling in crosswords.     Cheers,   Tony.

[cornykev]

This one particular guy walks down the paths of adjoining plots, its OK to view the others lotties from the main path but go goes onto plots and started digging the one behind he's one, another guy wanders about having an apple here a few strawberry's there etc, I just try to help these guys but, oh well maybe I should just keep schtum.    :-X      :-\

[Squash64]

Thanks everyone for your replies.  Unwashed, I've copied and saved your post so I can refer to it at our next committee meeting (hope that's ok)

Since I wrote about the onion being stolen, two or three more went from the same plot the very next evening.   :( 

I do suspect a particular bloke, but obviously without evidence there is nothing I can do. 

[Robert_Brenchley]

I once had someone going round telling people I was 'dodgy', and when I walked round the site I was 'casing the joint' for stuff to nick. Truth was I was having problems with my back and had to stop digging and take a walk now and then to rest it!

[claybasket]

Sad to say we have theifs coming on to our allotments at night , tools have been stolen ,one poor soul had all the tomatoes ,beans and strawberrys all stripped over night!Weve boared up our new shed window i hate it ,cant see if the door is closed (If you know what I mean )If we could catch them at it ,but you never do,hope they choke eating the stuff!