Topic: Riots in north London

[Busby]

There are so many points to be made that finding an answer to this mess is impossible. However one can't help feeling that if we got rid of all these 'experts', all lawyers, bankers, psychiatrists, thieving politicians, screen and sport 'stars', and all the rest - and replaced them all with normal people with common sense and a few simple powers we'd quickly have a working society.

[betula]

No excuses for this.

[shirlton]

If this is happening on your doorstep I think that your views on how you would cope with it will differ from someone who is living in total bliss in the country where everything is just swell.
A chap we saw last night on tv made me wonder. He said that we have allowed children to grow up too quickly and become adults when they cannot cope with the  responsibilities that adults should have.Girls are getting pregnant at a very young age and very often have to bring these children up as single mothers.(children raising children).
Discipline went out of the window at home and in school so the kids don't have any self discipline or in some cases any self respect.
Its no good having a decent honest upbringing at home when the rest of the system is corrupt.

[brownowl23]

I saw news yesterday that one of the rioters was a teaching assistant in Battersea. Now what kind of example is he setting to his pupils.

Thing is that  everyone had thier own personal reason for looting, some may have huge chips of their shoulder to riot and loot, some may have seen it as a way of getting a new telly and new trainers. Non of it is justifiable.

The rioters in the diversity of people involved and being charged seem to each have had thier own agenda. Mostly driven by greed.

Perhaps they should all be sent to build schools and water wlls in third world countrys as their punishment so thta they can see there are people  who dont have trainers and tellys, but live happily.
These people need some kind of short sharp shock and to be paying back in some way rather than us all paying £90,000 per criminal to be locked up in a cushy cell

[SamLouise]

I don't read the Daily Fail (in fact I don't read any newspapers as there's not much truth to be found in them these days!) but I was pointed in the direction of this article which I found to be very interesting and quite accurate throughout.  I know it will ruffle the feathers of a few on here but I feel it makes some points shared by many and not just at times like these. I'm not saying I agree with it 100% but there's definitely a lot of truth in there.  I didn't copy and paste as it's quite a long piece.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2024284/UK-riots-2011-Liberal-dogma-spawned-generation-brutalised-youths.html

Nice to see things are quietening down.  Thank goodness for that.

[brown thumb]

we who live in the country is just as disgusted with the riots as any one else who is living among it,( we feel for them)its mindless vandelision and greed is the fore front of their mind what ever way they want ti describe their actions we have our own opinion on which to deal with the offenders my 17 yr old grand daughter is also disgusted with the riots so not all teenagers support them there is all nationality's colours ages and sexes involved also classes its not just out of work youngest others have>got in the act>

[shirlton]

I don't read the Daily Fail (in fact I don't read any newspapers as there's not much truth to be found in them these days!) but I was pointed in the direction of this article which I found to be very interesting and quite accurate throughout.  I know it will ruffle the feathers of a few on here but I feel it makes some points shared by many and not just at times like these. I'm not saying I agree with it 100% but there's definitely a lot of truth in there.  I didn't copy and paste as it's quite a long piece.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2024284/UK-riots-2011-Liberal-dogma-spawned-generation-brutalised-youths.html

Nice to see things are quietening down.  Thank goodness for that.

Very interesting Sam

[grawrc]

If all that negative energy and anger were channelled into positive action how easy it would be to rebuild our country. This was not simply about areas of multiple deprivation but that was certainly a factor. Loads of the rioters and looters were there for what they could get but that, after all, is the message we get from government and the media as if, to be a worthwhile human being, all you need is money and "stuff".

I was particularly shocked  .. or maybe not, maybe more concerned? .... by the responses on TV of some of the mothers." You treat them like scum so they behave like scum." There is more than an element of truth in that and yet it is not an excuse for the riots and looting.

For much of my teaching career I opted to work in what was described as an area of multiple deprivation. The key to success (I was teaching foreign languages) was building relationships and earning respect. Additionally over the years the school got funding for and built up relationships with a number of organisations that interacted with home, school and the world of work. The school changed dramatically over the time I was there (not just because of me I hasten to add but because of a bunch of like-minded colleagues who shared a belief in the children and their community). The school got more kids into employment or training than any other school in Edinburgh and had steadily improving exam results. By the time I retired we had above Edinburgh average exam results for languages which, given the area, was quite miraculous. I remember well the head teacher saying that he wished he could give the languages teachers a salary rise or a bonus he was so pleased with our results.

Subsequently much of the funding that allowed the school to give the children a key to escaping their deprivation has been pulled. When will they learn that it's not that simple? And how can for example footballers be paid £90,000 a week when there is no funding to allow these children some kind of opportunity.


But this was not simply about areas of multiple deprivation. Loads of the rioters and looters were there for what they could get. Materialistic, self-seeking, greedy people.

I scorn David Cameron's description of our sick society. Easy to criticise when you have huge personal wealth and will never need to worry about your or your family's future. If our society is indeed sick then it is because it has been allowed to become so by the greed of the politicians and the bankers putting their own personal gain above that of the people of this country.

We talk about third world countries. We criticise the regimes of other nations. It's time we looked in our own backyard and started caring for our own.

[Borlotti]

I wore my brand new white tennis trainers to tennis yesterday (cost me £31 just before the riots), luckily I had kept the receipt and put it in my purse, one has to keep a sense of humour. They even stole jewellery from the Scratching Post (cat's charity shop), still went to Enfield yesterday and everyone seemed friendly and normal and it didn't seem too scary.  Think they should get all the old people to help the police, the ones that have lived through the war, a kind of Dad's army, if we won the war I am sure we can get through this.

[grawrc]

http://nathanieltapley.com/2011/08/10/an-open-letter-to-david-camerons-parents/

[Melbourne12]

.....This from somebody that would answer violence with yet more violence and turn the Army on, I assume, other people's kids?  You may do well to heed your own advice Betula.

...
....
If we are to turn the Army out, turn them out to protect the Crown, and let the bankers and their political mates swing for the enormous amount of damage they are still doing to this Country!  Then I'd settle for nothing less than heads on pikes at Traitor's Gate!

So you're very happy to see murder done in the furtherance of your own political ends, just not those of other people.

'Nuff said.

[Mr Smith]

What a sickening site watching the feral scum robbing the young student from Malaysia when he was clearly distressed, hopefully when they arrest the scum bags it would nice to see them shipped off to Malaysia to stand trial and have some of the colonial justice we left behind, and looking at the parents of the kiddies that took part in the riots no wonder the country is going bloody mad, iv but, iv but,

[tonybloke]

http://nathanieltapley.com/2011/08/10/an-open-letter-to-david-camerons-parents/

what a superb letter!!
well done for posting the link, Anne

[antipodes]

I think the question is why do these kids have absolutely no respect? Who has failed to teach them that people must live together in respect? That you care for other people's lives and belongings. That you have rights but duties too? That you can better yourself with education, and changing your scope, and that where you come from will never change but don't use it as an excuse.

Certainly there have been failures in policing methods etc but that is only part of the problem. There is a sad lack of moral fibre, for want of a better word. My parents used to live in Peckham, they had little and worked at menial jobs. But no other solution was available, they had 3 kids to raise and there were no handouts then. My mum was of the "you're never too poor to buy soap" generation and the flat was poky and cheap but clean, as were the kids and their clothes. Neither of my parents went to high school, my mother was a mother at nineteen, but their kids were polite, respectful and they knew that if they played up, there would be hell to pay. 
Why has this changed? When did people stop being ashamed of behaving like slobs?

And in some ways I feel disappointed to think like this, as I consider myself a liberal, tolerant person, I feel like it's very old fashioned! My kids are not angels but they are polite to others, go to school, do chores at home and get punished when they play up (even if it's not with the belt like my dad would have done!). We eat meals as a family and do activities together. Even you're broke, you can talk your kids for long walks or play in the park with them!

It's as if we wanted to be progressive, and do things differently but it has all blown up in our faces.

[ACE]

Well I hope all the talk from government is not just spouting off as usual. Take their social housing away including the parents of the looters, good move. Not being tied by the loony human rights if the bleeding hearts mob start shouting. Another good move.  I would have been tempted to vote for them next time, but the emergency parliament meeting had to sort out their mates investments, debating the fiscal situation first. ???

[grawrc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG-XWBVdonQ&NR=1

[grannyjanny]

Sheep everywhere ;D ;D ;D. I have been wondering over the last few days why there hasn't been any trouble in Scotland ;).

[tazz]

What a welcome home for  you Kev, and poor Borlotti. I do hope things calm down . I would feel like you Borlotti, wanting to have go but there are far too many of them to take on.. Best place is inside looking after Charlie

One of my sons was sent to Manchester last  night but told no one he was going not even his wife tazz

[OllieC]

Interesting chap on R4 just now - an expert on crowd/mob behaviour. He was saying how hard it was at the moment to have an intelligent discussion about how to stop it happening again - because people aren't able to make the distinction between understanding something & justifying it. Whatever is done - whether you hang 'em & flog 'em or let them all go free, or something in between, that in itself won't stop it from happening again.

Despite what some may think, watching the news and talking to your mates about it doesn't make you an expert, and neither does being an award winning, exceptionally good gardener. As long as we have the same underlying social factors, this type of thing is likely to become more common. It is not because of woolly liberalism or any other single factor, and however disgusting you or I or anyone else may find it, our disgust won't stop it happening again.

[lincsyokel2]

I don't read the Daily Fail (in fact I don't read any newspapers as there's not much truth to be found in them these days!) but I was pointed in the direction of this article which I found to be very interesting and quite accurate throughout.  I know it will ruffle the feathers of a few on here but I feel it makes some points shared by many and not just at times like these. I'm not saying I agree with it 100% but there's definitely a lot of truth in there.  I didn't copy and paste as it's quite a long piece.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2024284/UK-riots-2011-Liberal-dogma-spawned-generation-brutalised-youths.html

Nice to see things are quietening down.  Thank goodness for that.

Now im going to chuck my twopennorth in.

That article is spot on, and its what ive been saying for 15 years,.

If you want someone to blame, Harriet Harman is the one to point the finger at. She is the High Priestess of neoliberal politically correct militant feminism.

As the article says, she has spent her entire life leading the movement to dismantle the english nation, english culture and the english poeple.

The weapon she used is Political Correctness. 99% of people DO NOT UNDERSTAND the true nature of political correctness. Let me elucidate you all.

ln the days following the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia, it was believed that workers’ revolution would sweep into Europe and, eventually, into the United States. But it did not do so. Towards the end of 1922 the Communist International (Comintern) began to consider what were the reasons. On Lenin’s initiative a meeting was organised at the Marx-Engels Institute in Moscow, which became known as The Frankfurt School.  The aim of the meeting was to clarify the concept of, and give concrete effect to, a Marxist cultural revolution. Make a note of that phrase, its key.

The short version goes they came to the conclusion the Glorious Revolution had not swept through europe because people wernt miserable and annoyed enough.  So, they pondered, how do we make them so ?

Basically, the Frankfurt School believed that as long as an individual had the belief - or even the hope of belief - that his divine gift of reason could solve the problems facing society, then that society would never reach the state of hopelessness and alienation that they considered necessary to provoke socialist revolution. Their task, therefore, was as swiftly as possible to undermine the Judaeo-Christian legacy. To do this they called for the most negative destructive criticism possible of every sphere of life which would be designed to de-stabilize society and bring down what they saw as the ‘oppressive’ order. Their policies, they hoped, would spread like a virus—‘continuing the work of the Western Marxists by other means’ as one of their members noted.

To further the advance of their cultural revolution the School recommended (among other things):

1. The creation of racism offences.
2. Continual change to create confusion
3. The teaching of sex and homosexuality to children
4. The undermining of schools’ and teachers’ authority
5. Huge immigration to destroy identity.
6. The promotion of excessive drinking
7. Emptying of churches
8. An unreliable legal system with bias against victims of crime
9. Dependency on the state or state benefits
10. Control and dumbing down of media
11. Encouraging the breakdown of the family

One of the main ideas of the Frankfurt School was to exploit Freud’s idea of ‘pansexualism’ - the search for pleasure, the exploitation of the differences between the sexes, the overthrowing of traditional relationships between men and women. To further their aims they would:

• attack the authority of the father, deny the specific roles of father and mother, and wrest away from families their rights as primary educators of their children.
• abolish differences in the education of boys and girls
• abolish all forms of male dominance - hence the presence of women in the armed forces
• declare women to be an ‘oppressed class’ and men as ‘oppressors’
Munzenberg summed up the Frankfurt School’s long-term operation thus: ‘We will make the West so corrupt that it stinks.'

Of course, the original reasons for PC have long gone, but other insidious bodies intent on corrupting and destroying our soceity so they can take it over are still operating. The prime one is the EU, and there plane to destroy the nation states of Europe to form the United States of Europe.

Now look at that numbered list.  Looks familiar? Think back, thats exactly what Nu Labour practiced as Labour policy for 14 years while they were in office.  They used Political  Correctness to corrupt and destroy us because the looney left federalists want to cause collapse so they can see us rise from the ashes as the Eu superstate.

And this is the insidious thing about political correctness, it PRETENDS to be about offending no one, whilst planting the seeds we saw come into fruition the last three nights.

SO ultimately, PC is the enemy within we need to destroy, to challenge and to eradicate. I challenge anyone using PC, and enlighten them, and ask them why they seek the corruption and destruction of our society. Many of them,. one enlightened as to what its about, start to think twice about it.

Oh and if you voted Labour at any point in the last 15 years, then you are partially to blame for putting the evil pregnant dog Harman into power. I consider her one of the top three most dangerous enemies of this nation, along with Hitler and Bin laden.

Sorry, long post, pet subject of mine.   8)