Topic: Killers

[betula]

The West Highland Terrier is so pretty,they have a adorable smile and look like butter would not melt.............

You are tempted to treat them as a lap dog........

However they were bred as ratters,when mine sees a mole hill she smells and wants to be at it.........

You have to respect your animals for what they are.

My collie has never been near a sheep but she loves to herd us if she gets a chance..............It,s in them.

[carrot-cruncher]

We kept Jack Russell terriers when we had the farm specifically for vermin control, because that is what they were bred for.   Our Jack Russell, Peter, loved to sit on your knee for a cuddle but as soon as he saw a rat or rabbit nothing could hold him back.   He was very much a Jekyll & Hyde character.   We loved him dearly but we would never, ever leave him in a room alone with a baby.

Our Sammie was a Great Dane/GSD cross & 99.99% of the time was the biggest wimp going.   Loud bangs of any description or raised voices terrified him (& we'are talking a dog the same size as a shetland pony here!!!!).   However, one night whilst out with him for his last walk he started acting very, very aggressive.   His hackles went up in a manner I had never seen before & he had all his teeth bared & he was growling (which is something I only heard him do once up until this point).   His actions weren't aimed at me but at a car full of lads hidden behind a hedge ( I live in the countryside) that I had neither seen nor heard.   

Sammie was warning them away from his "mum" but it was such atypical behaviour for him it left me very shocked as it was a reminder of what he COULD do if sufficiently provoked.

CC

[Jeannine]

Sadly it is not the breed of dog that is a problem. Unless a dog has a mental defect , any breed of dog cab be raised to be obedient and with social manners, but put into the hands of folks who either bait them to fight,or neglect them to be given the training they need and dog can be potentially a threat.

As many folks seem unable to raise children these days how on earth can they be able to rear a sound animal.

Good dog owners know it is essential to train a dog, they do not bring them selves up.

This is where the fault lies in my opinion.

XX Jeannine

[shirlton]

We got a dog from the RSPCA some years ago.  He was ok with kids although never left alone with them. I had my daughter stayin with me at the time and she started taking he dog up with her for company. My grand-daughter who lived just around the corner and who had visited almost daily, started to come round before school in the morning so that my daughter could braid her hair for her. She was sitting in the kitchen when the dog suddenly went for her foot. Obviously jealous of the attention my daughter was giving to her. I think we have to remember that dogs are not humans and must be kept in their place. My son has had him in Co Durham for the last 5 years with their 2 children and he has been fine.

[flossy]

  I beleive that you can include a dog of any breed into your home and family by using a
  good supply of common sense , discipline and love.

  My one and only dog was a German Shepherd we had the privilage of knowing for nearly
  twelve years.   He was gentle, kind and sociable - giving people there first ever encounter
  of a ' fuss ' with this  breed.     We were running a Pub so he had to learn very quickly to fit
  in which he did, learning the rules and a fuss from us all when he did ' good '.

  I never , ever took for granted that this dog was beyond reproach - he was to us because
  we were very careful to  " protect  " him and others in any  adverse situations.

  Had a nightmare situation with a neighbours Jack Russell [ only mention breed as his size was
  significant ].    We were on our own playing ball some yards from home, when the JR hurtled up from
  nowhere  - he'd got out.  The JR was on his hind legs under my dogs throat - he could of attacked at
  any moment.  My dog froze and raised his head slightly,  all I could do was to firmly order ' leave it '
  over and over again.   My dog could have killed it with one shake, the other could have caught an artery
  in his kneck  --  We seemed to be in a time warp for ever, no sound except the barred teeth and
  snarling of the little dog, and me shaking like a leaf.    The owner turned up and called her dog off.!

  Without the training and the trust that our dog had in me, the situation could have been tragic for
  both of them.   

   They have to learn the rules and obey them, no question !     The tone of your voice with commands
   is usualy enough.

   floss xxx
 
     

[thifasmom]

I firmly believe no-one should ever trust any dog 100%.Not fair to the dog. You can't read it's mind and you can never assume it likes everything we do or say. We've always had dogs, sometimes two together.We've been very lucky to have dogs with non aggresive natures. All have been rescue dogs and all different breeds. The children were never left unsupervised with them, and if we weren't happy the dog was taken out of the equation. It's vital to teach youngsters to respect animals. When I was small I was bitten by our Retriever. I got a telling off as I had teased her with a biscuit.She got a wallop. Lesson learned by me.I cried because I was responsible for her getting a whack.

I feel so very sad for the family, but I can't help thinking about the Grandmother, she must feel about as bad as you possibly can.

similar experiences here as well and i couldn't agree with you more about the grandmother, i really feel for her, can't imagine how she felt having to call the babe's parents with that news. its such a horrible thing to have to live through i really feel for the family.

[Mrs Ava]

I am terrified of all dogs, no matter how soppy, big or small.  I was attacked by a beagle when I was about 7, he mauled my back and I ended up in hopsital having surgery to have the hole repaired.  Then my sister was desperate for a dog, so when I was a young teenage, mum and dad brought her an Old English Sheepdog.  Toby.  He was beautiful, but he had a mean streak.  He protected my mum passionately.  One day when I was playing with him, he turned and had my face - took a massive lump out of my nose - it could so easily have been my eyes.  Fortunately dad was there and pulled Toby off of me.  They wanted to have him put down but I was heartbroken, said it was my fault for playing with him and begged them not to do it.  They gave in....but a year later he turned on me again and nearly bit my finger off.  I now have no feeling in the bottom of my middle finger on my left hand.  At that point he was put down and an autopsy showed he had a brain tumour.  I don't know if that had anything to do with it, or not but I was heartbroken.  However, this has left me with a phobia of dogs.  In my job as a gardener, I often end up in gardens with a dog roaming, and I am incredibly brave, stand my ground and try my best to show no fear and so far, so good.  However, I have taught my children never to approach a dog, even if the owner says it is okay, it only takes one quick snap and the child is scarred for life.  These are wild animals, workers.  My James was snapped at by a family friends dog and that has put him off completely. 

[jesssands]

Please don't class whole breeds as killers! as this thread says, any dog is capable. In this circumstance if one dog started it, no matter which it was, the other would back it up  .... pack instinct.

I have owned a pair of Jack Russells for over 15 years, from puppies. One had a couple of instances with delivery men. The other didn't like children, she never harmed one, but if they came round it used to stress her out, she used to run round after them, trying to nip their fingers. So a great deal of respect is needed if you are going to continue to keep them.

I then owned a Staffy, who had the most softest nature I ever saw. He was rescue and sadly only owned him for 2 years before he got so ill. He was the greatest ambassador for his breed.

Now I have another rescue staff, He has no problems with humans but hates other dogs. As I am a responsible owner, I never let him off lead in a place where he might cause a prob. I always take him with my staffy cross to a place where he will not meet other dogs to let him off lead. And avoid any confrontation in the streets. I am guessing he is like this as no training was put in place before we got him at 5 years old. I am just picking up the pieces of what someone else did wrong. I feel that if you have a strong and powerful dog you need to be in control and training is a must. I think that to class them all as killers is just wrong. You get out what you put in.
We need to look at the other end of the lead. I expect some chav type had my dog before me, did everything wrong and then didn't like the result and got rid.
I too strongly believe that there should be licenced breeders. And owners too really. There are so many measures that could be put in place. Compulsory training as pups, compulsory neutering if not a reg breeder. This would then stop the supply outstripping demand and so many staffies and other dogs ending up in dogs homes or worse in the 7 day pound waiting to be put to sleep.

One last thought: more people kill children than what dogs do!

[Mrs Ava]

I would never class one breed, or even a particular group of breeds as killers.  As I said, I was attacked by a Beagle and an Old English Sheepdog, and my son was snapped at by a Laggotto - some fancy italian water dog.  No, they didn't kill, but you can see the capability.

[cornykev]

Don't like dogs and would never trust them.  :-X          ;D ;D ;D

[lorna]

Like EJ I am terrified of dogs, that is other peoples. Probably sounds daft as we have had dogs all of my married life, my lovely Labradors for 20 years also German Shepherds although the G.S's were never house dogs and now my "pest" of a KC Cavalier. I wouldn't go in to my son's house for 6 years because he had a German Shepherd then the Christmas following Charlie's death we were all going to John's for Christmas Dinner. He put Shelby in another room but when he had to bring her through to let her in the garden I was brave and said let her come to me, I now love her to bits but always make John hold her until she hears my voice. I was also bit as an 11 year old but thank goodness not as bad as EJ's.
Nothing annoys me more than when a dog bounds up to me and the owner shouts "He is just being friendly!!" If they can't control them put them on a lead.

[jesssands]

Lorna, I couldn't agree with you more. As my last post said, My boy is not good with other dogs so I keep him on a lead. Then there are those people who just let their dogs run riot, who will then run up to me with mine on lead. Its always a worry when this situation arises. They shout to their dog but of course he takes no notice! I have one regular numpty who simply doesn't learn.

EJ, I wasn't replying directly at you in my last post, please don't think I was. I was more trying to reply to the lady  who started this thread, as she was so quick to judge dogs as a breed (killers). I'm sure she's so qualified to do so having owned both a staffordshire bull terrier and a jack russell. Mmm probably not, so not the best person to pass comment really. Staffordshires really do have the sweetest of nature, they just wanna please their owners, which is why the chav type person can get them into such trouble.

Dogs should be made owners responsibility by means of registration etc and owners made to carry the can for their dogs actions. Its usually a human problem rather than a dog problem.

This was an unfortunate situation and I feel for the family of the baby. But its just an accident. We don't know all the facts as yet. Like the young lad that fell under the ice, what we gonna do get rid of all the ponds in Britain? All very sad.

[mike77]

jesssands very well said couldn't agree more  :-*

[Shirley]

Like you all, I feel very much for the child's grandmother - this is something she will have to live with for the rest of her life.  I haven't checked, but most of the cases where a child has been mauled by a dog, the dog is in its own home and the child the visitor - would this make a difference to the dog's behaviour?

[Bjerreby]

I agree entirely that certain breeds are outright dangerous. Some dogs of otherwise placid breed can also bite. I would however say that Homo sapiens needs to look in the mirror first. More children suffer at the hands of people than they do dogs. And furthermore, many people should not keep dogs because they do not understand them.

My advice to any potential dog owner is to contact Dog's Trust. THEY understand dogs, and there you will get first class advice on how to treat your dog.

I have a greyhound / colley cross, rescued from awful owners. She was labelled a "problem dog", but I can say, hand on heart, after learning from Dog's Trust how to be a responsible dog owner, I have now the most faithful, affectionate friend who I trust with my grandson.

[twinkletoes]

I have a rough coated JR and although I love her to bits - I would not leave her alone with young children.  I believe you have to think along the lines a pack of dogs might think.   Dogs are essentially pack animals and live in a system of hierarchy where the strongest dog is "top dog" and the rest work things out so they all know where they stand in the pecking order.  So perhaps as far as my dog is concerned, she is third in line in our pack.  Therefore if we were to introduce another "member" into our "pack" she would naturally trying to make sure she stayed 3rd in line and the new member knew its place - which as far as she would be concerned would be behind her.  This would be achieved by the 3rd member of the pack challenging the introduced member to decide their standing within the pack.  So, my theory is if you leave a dog with a new member of the family (ie. new baby) then the dog might attack the baby to maintain its position in the "pack".  Does any of this make sense?  
Twinkletoes

[ACE]

I have a rough coated JR and although I love her to bits - I would not leave her alone with young children.  I believe you have to think along the lines a pack of dogs might think.   Dogs are essentially pack animals and live in a system of hierarchy where the strongest dog is "top dog" and the rest work things out so they all know where they stand in the pecking order.  So perhaps as far as my dog is concerned, she is third in line in our pack.  Therefore if we were to introduce another "member" into our "pack" she would naturally trying to make sure she stayed 3rd in line and the new member knew its place - which as far as she would be concerned would be behind her.  This would be achieved by the 3rd member of the pack challenging the introduced member to decide their standing within the pack.  So, my theory is if you leave a dog with a new member of the family (ie. new baby) then the dog might attack the baby to maintain its position in the "pack".  Does any of this make sense?  
Twinkletoes

Exactly my thoughts.  My border collie has not got a bad bone in his body, but I would not leave him alone with any of the grand children. His bloodline goes back to a wild dog or wolf so the pack attitude is hiding there somewhere.

[Barnowl]

Sounds right to me.

[Mrs Ava]

Sorry Jesssands, I wasn't directing my reply to you, but I wanted to emphasise that all dogs, whatever their breed, have the capability of biting someone, and I agree that you can't just accuse certain breeds as being killers. 

[Jeannine]

Just seen this one and had to add my two pence worth.

Dogs are much like kids, bring them up right, teach them social skills , consequences, and manners, be their teacher and be the grown up (or top dog) and unless the dog has a mental defect things should work out.

I bred and showed dogs for many years, it was  the major part of my life until a few years ago.. would I trust a dog with a baby, no probably not ..as all kinds of accidents can happen not always because of temperament... would I trust a 3/4 year old  child with a baby..no for much the same reasons.

 Rotties, Staffies,Dobies etc are charming animals, sadly they  often attract  the wrong owner and are left to bring themselves up.. like children they need to know boundaries and praise, without those fundamental basic skills anything can happen and sadly does.

I firmly believe it is not the dogs fault,unless defective. I had only 1 dog who ever caused a problem, he turned on me and I sadly had him destroyed,I asked for a PM and they found a brain tumour.He was an OES.

XX  Jeannine