Topic: E-Petition for Pensioners to eat a more healthy diet

[Melbourne12]

Thank you so much Lorna

My rule of thumb for posting on forums is never to say anything I wouldn't be comfortable saying to that person face to face.

Paula xx

Hear hear to Lorna's post.  You have been very polite about the criticisms.

It would be good if you could also answer some of them, though (and I'm not talking about the use of English).

[SamLouise]

Paulah, regardless if we agree or disagree with the petition I for one would like to applaud the polite way in which you have answered posts on this subject.
Lorna

I agree, Lorna.  PaulaH you have managed to remain polite and gracious when others have not.  Good for you. 

I have signed because I don't give a flying fig about the politics of it, as a decent human being who is comfortably off, I choose not to ignore but to help in any little way I can.  Vive Le Revolution!  ;D ;D

[PaulaH]

Paulah, regardless if we agree or disagree with the petition I for one would like to applaud the polite way in which you have answered posts on this subject.
Lorna

I agree, Lorna.  PaulaH you have managed to remain polite and gracious when others have not.  Good for you. 

I have signed because I don't give a flying fig about the politics of it, as a decent human being who is comfortably off, I choose not to ignore but to help in any little way I can.  Vive Le Revolution!  ;D ;D

Thank you so much SavageBlue ;)

Paula xx

[PaulaH]

Thank you so much Lorna

My rule of thumb for posting on forums is never to say anything I wouldn't be comfortable saying to that person face to face.

Paula xx

Hear hear to Lorna's post.  You have been very polite about the criticisms.

It would be good if you could also answer some of them, though (and I'm not talking about the use of English).

Sorry Melbourne12, what is it you think I've failed to answer?

As you said in your previous post there is a lot to think about should we get this approved - right now the details of implementing the scheme are something, as a carer group, we'd look to work with our MP's to find a workable way to get this extra money/vouchers to the people who need it most.

Paula xx

[rosebud]

How very rude some people are , you know who you are.
How fortunate that you are able to eat & be able to buy what is good for you just give some respect to people who cannot provide for there senior years have you ever heard of ,

There but for the grace of God go i.

[Melbourne12]

...

Sorry Melbourne12, what is it you think I've failed to answer?

As you said in your previous post there is a lot to think about should we get this approved - right now the details of implementing the scheme are something, as a carer group, we'd look to work with our MP's to find a workable way to get this extra money/vouchers to the people who need it most.

Paula xx

I guess you've now answered my main question. I cannot for the life of me work out an acceptable process to achieve your (undoubtedly worthy) objectives.  Presumably, neither can you.

I just have one area of doubt.  Why, when fresh fruit and veg are so much cheaper than processed and packaged food, do you believe that more money will solve your perceived problem?

[OllieC]

It's a good point Melbourne. Lots of younger people can't cook & many people on low incomes waste a fortune on processed stuff. But surely most people over the age of er, probably 50? grew up before processed food existed. So is this mainly about people in care, or is it to educate people to keep an eye on the diet of others?

Often a culture change is needed, rather than lots of cash.

Valmarg - out of interest, do you really think that everyone with a low income or low savings deserves their lot, or are you being a bit flippant? Personally I am very fortunate, and have a good quality of life, with enough money to not have to worry too much. But I really don't work all that hard, and never have and don't really intend to. I know people with less money who work a lot harder. I don't think people get what is "fair" very often.

[manicscousers]

where we live, the only place for 5 miles where people can buy fruit and veg and meat,( mainly thinking of people who can't get around or carry stuff ) is Netto or the late shop !! ???
the nearest farmer's market is the same distance on the first saturday in the month   :(

[kenkew]

I really can't stand people who assume that all elderly people have squandered their 'spare' income throughout their working lives.
 My father was born with a physical disability which affected much of school days, consiquently he was doomed to a working life of low paid menial work. The knock-on to this was my elder brother and myself had to leave school at 15 'to bring some money in.' My first job (a long bus ride and a walk of a mile each way)paid £3:10s a week for 40 hours...the basic hourly rate these days is well over that and please don't tell me that that weekly wage compares favourably in today's terms. I managed to improve my lot with a second job to pay for night and correspondence study. I also spent 12 years in the forces, 5 of them on active service with the scras to prove it...I consider my lucky when I see how my mother ( who also had a crappy start in life) sometimes struggles...she's 85 now and stopped working this Easter!
 So, just how did people without an inflation proof occupational pension (never even heard of such a thing until I turned 40!) were supposed to 'invest' for their future is beyond me. If you are one of those lucky people who landed a job with these benefits...good on you, you really never did have it so good..but don't you dare look down your nose at the likes of me, my siblings and my parents and tell us what we should have done in rediness for our old age! Enjoy your sherry and slippers.
 I'm off to sign!
 

[PaulaH]

How very rude some people are , you know who you are.
How fortunate that you are able to eat & be able to buy what is good for you just give some respect to people who cannot provide for there senior years have you ever heard of ,

There but for the grace of God go i.

Thank you for your support Rosebud.

Paula xx

[PaulaH]

...

Sorry Melbourne12, what is it you think I've failed to answer?

As you said in your previous post there is a lot to think about should we get this approved - right now the details of implementing the scheme are something, as a carer group, we'd look to work with our MP's to find a workable way to get this extra money/vouchers to the people who need it most.

Paula xx

I guess you've now answered my main question. I cannot for the life of me work out an acceptable process to achieve your (undoubtedly worthy) objectives.  Presumably, neither can you.

I just have one area of doubt.  Why, when fresh fruit and veg are so much cheaper than processed and packaged food, do you believe that more money will solve your perceived problem?

Well, thanks for keeping me on my toes Melbourne12, it's nice to have a debate on something so important.

I'm a carer although my background is office management but the workings of our Government and their mysterious departments are new to me - as they are most people.

I would never say I have all the answers as to how this would work, the first step is to get support for this idea - it's then down to convincing the powers that be that a) there is a need for this allowance and b) how it would reach the people who need it - yes I know there are a lot of hurdles to cross before we get there but we are trying instead of sitting on our hands and watching elderly people die of malnutrition.

As for your comments on fruit and veg being cheaper than processed food, I wouldn't agree with that at all especially in winter months which is when the elderly need those extra vitamins from fruit and veg especially if we do have a harsh winter, at least if they do have this allowance they have a chance of a better diet, that's all we're asking.

Paula xx

[PaulaH]

I really can't stand people who assume that all elderly people have squandered their 'spare' income throughout their working lives.
 My father was born with a physical disability which affected much of school days, consiquently he was doomed to a working life of low paid menial work. The knock-on to this was my elder brother and myself had to leave school at 15 'to bring some money in.' My first job (a long bus ride and a walk of a mile each way)paid £3:10s a week for 40 hours...the basic hourly rate these days is well over that and please don't tell me that that weekly wage compares favourably in today's terms. I managed to improve my lot with a second job to pay for night and correspondence study. I also spent 12 years in the forces, 5 of them on active service with the scras to prove it...I consider my lucky when I see how my mother ( who also had a crappy start in life) sometimes struggles...she's 85 now and stopped working this Easter!
 So, just how did people without an inflation proof occupational pension (never even heard of such a thing until I turned 40!) were supposed to 'invest' for their future is beyond me. If you are one of those lucky people who landed a job with these benefits...good on you, you really never did have it so good..but don't you dare look down your nose at the likes of me, my siblings and my parents and tell us what we should have done in rediness for our old age! Enjoy your sherry and slippers.
 I'm off to sign!
 

Well said Kenkew and thank you so much for your support.

Paula xx

[valmarg]

All right, I know who you mean.  I did not mean to be quite so rude as it turned out I was, and yes I will put my hand up to being a bit bitter and twisted.

OH was compulsorily made redundant aged 57, a matter of a few months short of being eligible for the JCB company's early retirement scheme.

Purely to survive he had to start drawing his company pension when he was 58, thereby losing 4% per annum for being drawn early.  His pension is less than I was earning 20 years ago, and after 27 years of service it is criminal.  So please don't preach about lost pensions!!

I have tried to get work at the local supermarkets, but to no avail.  The last job I had was as secretary/PA to the Director of Personnel Services, Bass plc

He has been unable (at his age) to get an equivalent job.  For a few years he has managed to get seasonal work at Alton Towers, but this year they have cut back on local employees in favour of eastern europeans at a much lower hourly rate.

On our joint annual income we would be eligible for Gordon Browns means tested benefits, BUT, we have a few quid in savings.

Sorry if I was offensive, but as I said, I do get a bit bitter and twisted about our situation, which is through no fault of our own!!

valmarg

[frank farmer]

I am affraid i am not so generous as PaulaH in forgiving those of you who are so snotty nosed about other peoples situations, pensioners, some who are fortunate enough to have good finances in place are very lucky, yes i say lucky, because there but for the grace of god go i, that does not mean one cannot have empathy for those less fortunate than ourselves.

Last winter thirty five thousand OAPs died of the cold and malnutrition in england, they died alone in cold dark dank homes, to all those of you who have no empathy for those poor soles, i say shame on you, lets hope for what any reason you do not loose all you have because of something out of your control and have to rely on the kindness of others, this is what i think of all you people






And to all those others who have signed the e-petition, good on you,have a nice weekend, god bless to you.

Frank Farmer

[valmarg]

And there was me thinking I was the one being ostracised , but having seen frank farmer's piss artist, I wonder which of us is the worst!!!

valmarg

[rosebud]

Ken , i support everthing you say well done for saying it in such a dignified way.
Frank Farmer there is no need to put your point across in such a very rude manner, you spoiled everthing you said by putting that childish ending such a shame after what you said.

Valmarg, you were gracious in your apology to Paula. sorry to hear of what happened try not to let it make you bitter.  I had to give up work i year before retirement due to unstable angina, but that's one of life`s blows at least i do not have to go hungry & would make sure that if i knew of anyone that did i would make sure they had a good meal & never to lonely. bless us all who are comfortable & those who are not .Now i think all the squabling should cease we are loosing the point of this thread.  Rosebud.

[PaulaH]

All right, I know who you mean.  I did not mean to be quite so rude as it turned out I was, and yes I will put my hand up to being a bit bitter and twisted.

OH was compulsorily made redundant aged 57, a matter of a few months short of being eligible for the JCB company's early retirement scheme.

Purely to survive he had to start drawing his company pension when he was 58, thereby losing 4% per annum for being drawn early.  His pension is less than I was earning 20 years ago, and after 27 years of service it is criminal.  So please don't preach about lost pensions!!

I have tried to get work at the local supermarkets, but to no avail.  The last job I had was as secretary/PA to the Director of Personnel Services, Bass plc

He has been unable (at his age) to get an equivalent job.  For a few years he has managed to get seasonal work at Alton Towers, but this year they have cut back on local employees in favour of eastern europeans at a much lower hourly rate.

On our joint annual income we would be eligible for Gordon Browns means tested benefits, BUT, we have a few quid in savings.

Sorry if I was offensive, but as I said, I do get a bit bitter and twisted about our situation, which is through no fault of our own!!

valmarg

Valmarg I do understand your situation.

I had to leave work 6 years ago to look after Mum full time, I'd managed the previous 15 working but her health deteriorated quickly and I had to make the decision - unfortunately all my company could offer me was a 'two year unpaid career break' which quite frankly was about as much use as a chocolate teapot!  Some colleagues were given redundancy which would have given me a reasonable lump sum after 13 years service but my post wasn't one of them, sadly so I went from earning £22k a year as an office manager to £48.65 carers allowance, quite a steep learning curve, I can tell you.

I'm fortunate to have found support through carer forums and a very loving partner who I'm working with not only on this e-petition but we also campaign for carers rights which is another issue the Government need to look at urgently - carers save the Government £57b a year in social care, we've got an aging population and the care service just can't cope with it - god only know what'll happen when I get to retirement age, I dread to think what my frozen occupational pension will be worth, sod all probably!

Paula xx

[PaulaH]

I am affraid i am not so generous as PaulaH in forgiving those of you who are so snotty nosed about other peoples situations, pensioners, some who are fortunate enough to have good finances in place are very lucky, yes i say lucky, because there but for the grace of god go i, that does not mean one cannot have empathy for those less fortunate than ourselves.

Last winter thirty five thousand OAPs died of the cold and malnutrition in england, they died alone in cold dark dank homes, to all those of you who have no empathy for those poor soles, i say shame on you, lets hope for what any reason you do not loose all you have because of something out of your control and have to rely on the kindness of others, this is what i think of all you people






And to all those others who have signed the e-petition, good on you,have a nice weekend, god bless to you.

Frank Farmer

Thank you for your support Frank, you are right - so many elderly people do suffer in terrible conditions especially during the winter months, sadly the communities that used to check on their elderly neighbours (I remember going round with Mum checking on 'aunties' as a child) have gone - we can't allow people who have given so much to society to end their days in cold and poverty.

Interesting way of watering your garden Frank, I prefer to use a rainwater butt ;)

Paula xx

[kenkew]

 Some of the somewhat controversial comments are understandable. How many of us know people claiming dole money, child benefit and various allowances issued for the good of the family, only to see it find it's way over the local bar or Bingo Hall or spent on gambling? I've certainly seen that happen many times while the kids end up with a bag of chips for tea. My father never ever went into a pub as I recall, neither of my parents ever took so much as a penny from the state and although being hard working people all their lives, they ended up with zero saving. My father died 2 months after retiring so he didn't even get the chance to put his feet up after working from the age of 14. But some of what has been stated does have a true basis.
 I took some of the comments mentioned as being aimed at the situation of the likes of my family, and that was wrong. Part of my last piece was written without pausing for a couple of breaths before hand....for that I apologise, but I would defend to the end the right of elderly people to have at least the basic necessities at a time when they are most vulnerable.
 Me thinks Paula has quite a task on her hands.
Ken.

[valmarg]

Thank you PaulaH and Rosebud for your understanding.  I'm not normally what the locals call a 'nangy old tart', but I do get a bit down in the dumps now and again, and I'm extremely sorry if I caused any offence.

valmarg