Topic: BBC Prog last night about boy

[wardy]

Did anyone see the prog last night on Beeb about the  7 year old boy who was in danger of becoming obese?

It showed his mother in kitchen chopping fresh veggies as she'd been advised to by the experts who were trying to help her with her overweight son.   She said she had never prepared food from fresh  :o  What was worse was that she's a SCHOOL DINNER LADY!  She had no idea what to do with a clove of garlic.  Their food range was really limited and the folks really didn't know what anything was.  She was not particularly young either, and being a dinner lady I thought she should have known her way around food, fresh or otherwise.  The mind boggles!

[undercarriage plan]

missed it Wardy, but am so not surprised. My son had a friend round for tea, said to the dad we were having brocoli etc, and would he like it....his repsonse " Ooo he's never seen that!! so he may do....Give it ago..." And no he didn't and no he wouldn't......is very sad...
Lottie

[Lily]

I didn't watch the programme.  Things like that annoy me and I just can't watch.  Being an adult and parent she should have known better,  it's apathy.  But, maybe her parents were just the same and didn't show her how to cook.  I was never taught to cook by my mum, but I did watch her in the kitchen.  It was school that taught me. 

We had a 'Flat' in the school where we spent a week cooking and cleaning.  We would invite a different teacher each day for lunch.  We felt very grown up.  Best time I had in school.

I love the programmes that get people back in the kitchen.

Did you see Jamie Oliver programme in Italy.  All the little one's identified each fruit/veg he held up for them to identify.

Lily

[paranoid mandroid]

that is what frustrates me about people and society in general these days. so many people take their dinner out of a box. nobody cooks anything anymore. everyone is obsessed about convenience.
if the supermarkets all closed tomorrow id say near 99% of people wouldn't have the foggiest how to fend for themselves.
its a real throw away culture too. i dont know anyone who cares where the contents of their bin go after the council collects it. we only have a finite amount of space on this planet and by using plastic milk bottles, plastic bags, disposable nappies etc. etc. etc. we are not helping our problem.

why cant we bring back our bottles anymore? the plastic wont break down for millions of years in the landfills.

bakc to the poitn about food - my dinner every night is fresh veg (from my garden when its in season, when its not from the local farm shop).

people (or westerners is what i should say) are lazy and want everything laid in their lap without working for it.

i have to stop ranting now because im getting angry.  >:(

edit: i just thought i'd add that im 25 years old and am only speaking from experience from my own short life so god knows how horrified older people who have seen real change over the years would think of the state we have got oursleves into.

2nd EDIT: why cant they teach stuff about growing veg, recycling, reducing waste/pollution etc. at school along with home economics. make it COMPULSORY. not some of the useless stuff that they teach nowadays. i learnt algebra and have never needed it - i have just finished a HNC business and i'mm doing the degree now and guess what - still dont need it. and i had to learn everything about veg. gardening from books for myself or grandparents.  >:(

[wardy]

School dinner ladies who don't know how to prepare fresh food.  What next teachers who don't know how to teach .......... Very possibly!

[spacehopper]

I'm saddened but not surprised.
There are a generation of parents who are not interested or able to teach their kids basic life skills like cooking and running a house. Schools could have a significant role in rectifying this but are so caugh up in jumping through hoops for the various useless tests they are forced to endure they don't have time to go near any of this. The school system in general worries me greatly...kids are sent too early, before many of them even have the manual dexterity to hold a pencil or the concentration to sit through a lesson. Then if they are not ready developmentally they are labelled 'stupid' or 'lazy' or 'hyperactive'. Totally inappropriate. Then they are these awful tests that they are trained like parrots to pass. I'll bet they forget all of it within a year. I've got a degree and a pHd in chemistry and I can't remember any of it! The only things of continued use in education are transferable skills like critical thinking and analysis, problem solving, information gathering, experimentation and so on and so forth. It's something that really worries me for my kids and for future generations. I'm hoping to send mine to a nearby Steiner-Waldorf school (Botton).
Sorry, I realise this has gone a bit off topic, but it's something that really winds me up, and is somewhat related to the cooking issue!

[daisymay]

Home Economics is no longer taught in schools now! it is bundled in with all other practical life skills like woodwork/ metalwork, sewing etc.... and is not compulsory topic for GCSE etc... so most kids can drop it when they reach senior school. (as far as I know anyway - the way it is where we are sure teachers amongst us will correct me!)

I did Food Studies GCSE and Home Economics A level - was only 6 people in my classes. I was always encouraged to cook at home and used to make dinner for my family regularly since I was about 6 years old.

One of my main motivations for getting my allotment is to educate my kids (when we eventually have them!) that vegetables do not grow on shelfs in tins.

I am always amazed by the rubbish a lot of people eat and drink. Everyone I share an office with drink nothing but cans of fizzy drinks (they take the plastic cups out of the water machine for them) as they do not like water?!? very strange!

[paranoid mandroid]

dont even get me started on work colleagues - when the tea trolley comes around they get their fizzy drinks and choc bars. As well as that the amount of waste that goes on in our office, but they'd look at me like i was crazy if i mentioned it.
i haven't got any kids yet but part of my reason for keeping the gardens and the chickens is because i want them (when i have them) to see where food really comes from.
older people (the over 30s  ;) ) who have lived in the area for years always comment on our garden and how it reminds them of 'the old days' with the chickens roaming about.

[Yellow Petals]

School dinner ladies who don't know how to prepare fresh food.  What next teachers who don't know how to teach .......... Very possibly!

:-X

[Yellow Petals]

Home Economics is no longer taught in schools now! it is bundled in with all other practical life skills like woodwork/ metalwork, sewing etc.... and is not compulsory topic for GCSE etc... so most kids can drop it when they reach senior school.

I left school in 1983 and that's how it was then too.  English, Maths & Science were the only compulsary subjects to complete schooling - everything else was an option.

When I worked for social services, we had some of the most horrendous teenagers to contend with but the one thing that always hushed them down and got them concentrating was cookery day on a Thursday.  All moods completely changed, they loved it.  We would plonk cookery books infront of them, tell them to pick what they wanted to cook and we'd all go off to the supermarket and buy the ingredients.  Boys and girls alike picked their recipies of gateaux (eek) stews, Chinese, Indian, risottos, meats in sauces, bread! fry ups (yum) and so it goes on (sometimes I even managed to persuade them to sit down and eat it with the staff if they had time.  All in the name of teaching you understand...... ;D ;) )  Children miss out on so much by not being given the time to enjoy such lessons properly (they grow up to be dinner ladies!!)

[redimp]

School dinner ladies who don't know how to prepare fresh food.  What next teachers who don't know how to teach .......... Very possibly!

Not to excuse such ignorance but please do remember that most primary schools only have packed lunches - our does, and we have three dinner ladies.  Not all dinner ladies are involved in food preparation.

Not to keen on final comment though.  Bit CBIish.

[Delilah]

Paranoid - nice to see you :)

What a can of worms this has opened, am lost for words and thats the second time today, its becoming a habit!!

I desperately want to start but know if I do I'll not stop and I've got to work in 10 mins - so I'd better return to this thread later!!

[Plocket]

I saw a snippet of the programme and turned off in horror. I couldn't believe that a parent could be so cruel as to feed their child such c**p.

I do hope that dinner ladies aren't being blamed for poor diet though - they are providing food that is financed by the schools or local councils - it's not really their choice what is being served to the children. They are just dishing it out as ordered.

[Obelixx]

I cook fresh food every day and my daughter has to have a bit of everything I serve up just so her taste buds get used to it.  When she was little she ate everything including chillies.  Now she's gone fussy owing to school influences.   

School dinners here are sent in every day and just have to be served.  They're OK and well balanced and no choices but she often doesn't like them so we have a deal.  I will do packed lunches as long as she eats what I give her - pasta salads, wraps, sandwiches, home made muffins and cakes etc.   What do I get pestered for?   Pot noodle and Nutella sandwiches.  It's what 2 of her friends get.

As for waste, our council took one look at the recycling targets and came up with an effective scheme.   Free blue see-through bags were issued for plastic bottles, tetra packs and cans.   Containers were set up for paper, glass bottles, garden chemicals, car and cooking oils etc.......   Free composting lessons and bin construction advice were offered for kitchen and garden waste.    Wheelie bins were issued for all unsorted rubbish and had bar codes that could be scanned per household every time they were emptied.   For the two introductory years, all waste in the wheelie bin was weighed and charged for.   

It concentrated the minds of almost 100% of the locals.   Now we pay a reasonable flat rate fee for all refuse collection, have recycling collections every two weeks and have reduced our landill habits by over 50%.    Easy peasy.

[Delilah]

Obbelix - I had a theory that it is only when payment in relation to amount of waste is an issue that peeps will start to concern themselves about the waste they create and other ways of disposal, ie. recycling - thank you for proving my theory to be true :D

right then so lets gets started Delilah, where do we begin?

cookery lessons, I started another thread on this a while ago.  My daughters list of ingredients for apple crumble started with TIN OF PIE FILLING - need I say any more!!!!!!!

School lunches - now theres a minefield - as a parent we are able to go to school and have lunch with our children.  Last Friday I went into school - there was a choice of two different meals:

Oven Baked Sausage
Mashed Potato
Frozen Peas
Gravy

OR

Egg and Cheese Flan
Potato Wedges
Homemade Coleslaw and Salad

My daughter, Abbie, had the sausage, I had the flan.  Some of the other children had a combination of the two - ie. sausage, wedges, salad and GRAVY!!  Why would anybody serve a child salad and gravy? Its beyond me!!  then Abbie said "why does this mashed potato have powder in it??!!"  IT WAS INSTANT MASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm going into school for lunch again tomorrow - its a choice of fish or sausage - so lets see what tomorrow brings!!

Caz and Baz - in year 6 my daughter was conditioned like a parrot to achieve level 5 in her sats, which she did, was then put in the top set at secondary school based on her sats results and has struggled to cope with the work.  Often some of the so-called 'nice' families are the worst offenders and not teaching their children basic skills because of a lack of time when both parents are working full-time!!

OK rant over and done with now - I feel much better for that!!!!!! ;)

[Obelixx]

I have to confess I gave up domestic science as soon as I could.   In the two years I did them at grammar school I don't remember cooking anything I wanted to eat and I don't remember there being any nutritional information either.   I loathed sewing too and there was a definite assumption that these classes were for girls in the thick stream.

Now, in the interests of taste, health, economy and fit I cook a wide range of dishes and sew a lot of my clothes and curtains but I'm lucky enough to be curious about food and nutrition and willing to learn and try new dishes and ingredients.   

My in-laws were the opposite.  They understood all about preparing soil for good crops and feeding the right mineral mixes to get good tomatoes or cabbages or pumpkins but never made the connection to human health and cooked the goodness out of them.  Like many people, they thought eating to assuage appetite was enough and didn't understand that you can be full and even fat and still be malnourished.

There are all sorts of behavioural and health problems in children and adults that can be fixed or improved with a well-balanced diet of fresh foods.    Why isn't that message being spread by the public health sector?  It would save society and the tax payer so much money in many sectors - health service, schools and criminal delinquency.

[aquilegia]

I think another problem is that with a lot of parents (and teachers) not teaching kids about nutrition the only things telling them what to eat are adverts. Did they ban advertising junk food at children or only talk about it? I can't remember.

have you ever noticed how the more junk there is in the food, the more junk there is around it? Rubbish food = more rubbish in the environment.

better stop there before i get all wound up...

[Delilah]

had school lunch again today and it wasn't too bad - oven baked fish in breadcrumbs with rice and mixed veg and salad, and the Headteacher was wandering around the hall making children go back and get some veggies or salad if they hadn't any on their plate!

Did anybody see on the news this morning that supermarkets have twice as many special offers on pre-packed, convenient "unhealthy" foods than on fresh "healthy" foods - not that I'm surprised >:(

Wardy - I have a patient who buys readby minced garlic because she didn't know how to prepare fresh garlic.  Shocking but True!!

[SueM]

I agree that school meals can be pretty dire, but there are historical reasons for this. In the early 70s I worked in School Meals. At that time all the ingredients were fresh and cooked on the premises, except in very small schools which had no kitchen. There were also nutritional standards, mainly to do with the amount of protein in the meal but we also expected to serve two veg besides potato every day and a salad once a week where there was no choice and at least one pudding a week had to have fruit in it.

Then wages for school cooks rose, but local authorities didn't have any extra money to pay for them. Solution - reduce staffing and introduce frozen meals and ready prepared ingredients (hence, for instance, the powdered mash).

Then Maggie Thatcher's government abolished nutritional standards for school meals, so in many authorities the expensive protein element was cut to save more money (staff costs still rising). Also many schools, especially secondaries, found that 'traditional' dishes like stew and a lot of vegetables, just went in the bin. They took the line of least resistance and stuck to food the kids would eat, especially after the teachers stopped doing dinner duty. In some schools they had previously 'encouraged' (ordered) the children to eat what they had taken. Dinner ladies don't have that kind of authority - I suppose a lot of teachers don't either these days, and the thought of ordering a child to do anything seems to be regarded as tantamount to child abuse!

The situation is supposed to be better here in Scotland, although it's a while since my kids were at school so I can't really judge. However, rates/community charge have always been higher here. When we moved here about 30 years ago we paid more rates for a 4-roomed flat than my brother did for a 3-bedroomed house in the southeast - and our area was cheap compared with some others. We now pay (with water charge) about £1200 pa for a band D house and are threatened with a 4% rise this year.

The answer is quite simple - you get what you pay for. Decent school meals would cost at least twice the amount that is allocated to them at present. There are already rumblings about rising community charges, but they would have to go up even more if school meals are to improve.

[Robert_Brenchley]

That's the result of successive governments transferring taxation to local authorities so that they get the blame for the rises. I think a lot of people (me for one) would pay a bit more income tax if the money went to schooling and the NHS.