Topic: law change october 2009

[shaun01]

has anyone got any facts relating to this new law i have been trying to find out how we has allotment holders are affected, we have both children and vulnerable adults on our site that we all help from time to time are we putting ourselves at risk of prosecution.

[saddad]

Probably... even if you have a CRB check elsewhere... it's currently one for each setting... I had four at one point, but only two currently...  ::)

[Unwashed]

Check it out here.

How I read it is:  An allotmenteer doing an occaisonal favour for another (child or vulnerable) allotmenteer isn't going to need to be registered because the contact needs to be frequent and intensive (whatever that might mean) but an allotmenteer who regularly supervises their gardening will.

[elvis2003]

i hadnt heard of this,so thanks for bringing it up. although,i cant think of any instance at out plot when a child ould be there without its parent,so why the worry? vulnerable adult,of course,may be more likely

[Unwashed]

What a right load of nonsense.  In the context of helping children and vulverable adults on the allotments, this is what it looks like to me:

If you're teaching, supervising, giving advice or giving a lift, and if you do it regularly more than once a month, or three or more times in any month, then you need to be registered with the ISA.

If the child or vulnerable adult that you're helping is there as part of some kind of training then again if you're helping regularly more than once a month, or three or more times in any month, then you need to be registered with the ISA.

So just giving someone a bit of help if they're just up there working their allotment doesn't need registration.

[Unwashed]

although,i cant think of any instance at out plot when a child ould be there without its parent

And why on earth shouldn't a child have an allotment in their own right?

[elvis2003]

thats not what i said unwashed,with respect!

[shaun01]

the problem is this on our site we have a plot for disabled and vulnerable adults that come on to the site twice a week  they are not supervised by anyone . they do not have much experience in growing so we help them when we can , but because the law has changed it has put concerns to some of our members , problem 2. we have a nature reserve and a community plot also but with all this law change members are now reluctant to help out for fear of braking the law i have phoned the ivs and they just stick to the script that they have on there web site .its so confusing 

[Unwashed]

Shaun

The Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act is not the easiest to follow, but I think there'll be many allotmenteers in just the situation you describe, and it's certainly not obvious that the Act doesn't apply.  Registration is free for volunteers, but it's a great inconvenience for decent people doing the decent thing.

Elvis

You can't think of why a child would be on site without her parent, and I'm saying that children should be free to maintain their own allotments without supervision, and that would create the situation that you couldn't envisage.

[Trevor_D]

Shaun, if you have disabled and vulnerable adults coming onto your site, they ought to be supervised. You say "twice a week", which implies a regular timetable from some organisation, rather than a regular rental from yourselves.

We have a group from MIND who come to work on a plot most weeks. But I'm in touch with their leader; we each have insurance; we have agreed & signed the terms & conditions. They are in charge of their plot and if any plot-holder offers help it's no different from offering help to any other plot-holder. If it's a regular teaching or mentoring, that might be different.

If you're really worried, phone NSALG.

[Unwashed]

Shaun, if you have disabled and vulnerable adults coming onto your site, they ought to be supervised.

Trevor, 'vulnerable' in this context includes many people who would be insulted at the idea of needing supervision so in general, no, 'vulnerable' people don't necessarily need supervision, they just don't need the attentions of the kind of people the Act is trying to exclude.

[Trevor_D]

Sorry - wrong terminology. I don't regard anyone as either disabled or vulnerable, though I get the impression that legislation does.

By "supervised", I didn't mean a "minder" going around after anyone, merely that the site needs to agree with those coming in about what their legal status is: insurance, locking the gates, and the general rubbish about "being a member". If a group is a member, it's a bit different from an in individual being a member.

We have several so-called "disabled" members - most of them of are a lot more "abled" than I am, and they have my respect. I meant no insult at all.

[BAK]

although,i cant think of any instance at out plot when a child ould be there without its parent

And why on earth shouldn't a child have an allotment in their own right?

No reason at all why a child should not have a plot in its own right but that is not the same as saying that a child could be there on his/her own. Just as parents would (hopefully) limit a child in the home, eg not to have a house key until they felt comfortable that the child could cope / be trusted, access to an allotment site should be similarly limited.

[Squash64]

and I'm saying that children should be free to maintain their own allotments without supervision, .

Unwashed - what age of child are you talking about here?

[elvis2003]

unwashed,i did quite clearly state that i meant OUR plot,i did not imply that a child shouldnt have their own plot.
again,i meant a child would not be on their own at OUR plot,as we dont have any children renting a plot

[lavenderlux]

Is the organisation bringing children to an allotment site (eg school) or the individual(s) who helps with that school group when they are visiting that's responsible for asking helpers to get/initiate CRB checks or is it the responsibility of the 'helper' to get these done?

I have been CRB checked for the 'young offenders' group who visit our allotments weekly as I work closely with them (also my background checked through their own procedures), but we have children from one school who come weekly, children from a school with 'special and additional needs' who come on occasions and also children from our local infants school who visit about three or four times a term.

As for 'children having a plot' our rules are that one has to be over 18 to have a plot, and under 16's on the allotment field need to be supervised by parents or other adult responsible for them at all times.

[lewic]

I would hate to have school groups or unsupervised children on our site. It is my little bit of peace and tranquillity, I don't want it disrupted by hordes of screaming kids!

Schools should be providing these facilities, there is enough competition for plots on our site as it is.

[Unwashed]

Sorry, I've taken this thread off-topic.  I'll post the children-on-allotments question elsewhere so we can get back on-topic.  And sorry Elvis, I misunderstood what you said.

[Robert_Brenchley]

I would hate to have school groups or unsupervised children on our site. It is my little bit of peace and tranquillity, I don't want it disrupted by hordes of screaming kids!

Schools should be providing these facilities, there is enough competition for plots on our site as it is.

We have a very successful school plot on our site. There has never been the slightest disruption, and they always come down with a teacher. I don't think there's any need to cry wolf.

[BAK]

lewic,

a local nursery has a plot on our site. The children only visit occasionally - the work mostly being done by adults - and they are well supervised.

There is also a pre-school and they visit periodically - again well supervised.

We also have a teenager who has a plot but it seems to have been a 5 minute wonder. Fortunately his mother looks after the plot.

So no great problems here.