Can anyone id Suess Becker bean?

Started by Jayb, March 23, 2012, 10:32:11

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Jayb

I wonder does anyone recognise this dwarf growing bean? Although it has been grown in isolated from source for over 100 years.
Last year I was kindly sent 2 seeds of a family heirloom bean, grown in the US since 1888 but originating from Graben-Neudorf in Germany. Luckily for me both seeds germinated and went on to produce a crop of beans. Most I saved for seed to be grown again this year. History and more pictures here http://tatermater.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=615&page=1
Seed Circle site http://seedsaverscircle.org/
My Blog, Mostly Tomato Mania http://mostlytomatomania.blogspot.co.uk/

Jayb

Seed Circle site http://seedsaverscircle.org/
My Blog, Mostly Tomato Mania http://mostlytomatomania.blogspot.co.uk/

galina

Short answer sadly no.  I followed your link and found out that Dan McMurrey has passed on, who had this bean on his swap list a year or so back.  This is so sad.  I must say I haven't been following the lists recently, but read about his brave fight with illness, so shortly after his wife lost her battle with cancer.  Dan was one in a million.  All the more incentive to propagate the pea varieties he sent me in exchange and pass seeds on to others.

There is no info from German sources that I can find - none.  Suess Becker is a family name and the spelling is correct.  There is no bean with this name that I am aware of anywhere in Germany and I have tried other spellings too.  Well, this is nothing new - European varieties often survived better in the USA, where immigrants were more into seed saving and into hanging on to links with their old original countries, often by means of seeds. 

Just looking at the photos, there seems to be a similarity with the dwarf French Bean 'Hutterite Soup', which is said to come from Austria.  Suess Becker is said to come from Baden Wuerttemberg, well that isn't very far away from Austria.  Maybe this type of bean was once wide-spread in the South of Germany and Austria and has survived under different names?  With variations?  It is so difficult to really know much about bean family links without DNA data. 

Have you by any chance grown Hutterite Soup?  I haven't or I'd be happy to share seeds.

Hope you can find answers.  I will keep looking too.

Jayb

Yes very sad news about Dan, although I didn't know him other than his posts at different forums and his blog, I felt quite a shock and much sadness at his passing, a very generous man. 

I think Suess Becker is the adopted name Tom and his family have given the bean. I also wondered at Hutterite Soup, but seeds appear quite different, my Hutterite came originally from Baker Creek, this seed is from 2010 harvest so a bit darker. Seed is noticably smaller and flatter.
Hutterite Soup on the left.
[attachment=1]

I also wondered at Ireland Creek Annie but again side by side dissimilar
[attachment=2]

Quote from: galina on March 23, 2012, 11:15:26
Just looking at the photos, there seems to be a similarity with the dwarf French Bean 'Hutterite Soup', which is said to come from Austria.  Suess Becker is said to come from Baden Wuerttemberg, well that isn't very far away from Austria.  Maybe this type of bean was once wide-spread in the South of Germany and Austria and has survived under different names?  With variations?  It is so difficult to really know much about bean family links without DNA data. 

I'm not sure how much 100 years or so of selection will change the appereance, so yes a difficult one.
Seed Circle site http://seedsaverscircle.org/
My Blog, Mostly Tomato Mania http://mostlytomatomania.blogspot.co.uk/

galina

Thanks for the super photos, Jayb, showing all three.

Prairie Garden Seeds sell a Kahl bean, said to be somewhat similar to Hutterite soup bean.  Both are depicted as much more beige or even greenish beige on other web pages and the photo in the HSL catalogue.  

Storage colour and differences in seed colour when grown on different soils is always a problem for bean seed identification.  Even with freshly harvested seed, which is at its most colourful, the differences are distinct.  Size is also a problem and up to a point related to growing conditions.  Which leaves the variation in shape and the distinctive hilum ring as an identifying marks.  Roll on DNA identification  :) maybe all 'beige' beans with hilum ring are distantly related and originate from an old type, which diversified over the centuries in different locations.  

Well Suess Becker bean is definitely very rare.  Tom Wagner's link to where his family originated from.  Will keep an eye out for similar types still in cultivation.

 


Jayb

Thanks Galina, I'll go and take a look at Kahl.

Quote from: galina on March 23, 2012, 13:18:43
maybe all 'beige' beans with hilum ring are distantly related and originate from an old type, which diversified over the centuries in different locations. 

That's thought provoking.

Thank you, it would be interesting to know if a similar family line is still grown in Germany or Europe.
Seed Circle site http://seedsaverscircle.org/
My Blog, Mostly Tomato Mania http://mostlytomatomania.blogspot.co.uk/

galina

Quote from: Jayb on March 23, 2012, 20:41:47
Thanks Galina, I'll go and take a look at Kahl.

Quote from: galina on March 23, 2012, 13:18:43
maybe all 'beige' beans with hilum ring are distantly related and originate from an old type, which diversified over the centuries in different locations. 

That's thought provoking.

Thank you, it would be interesting to know if a similar family line is still grown in Germany or Europe.

Not found an identical or near identical bean.  But another 'relative' perhaps.  Looking through HSL catalogues, I noticed a picture of another dwarf French bean, called Arranesco.  Flatter beans, darker beige and with a double hilum ring.  I have not grown these either and can only cooment on the photo, but that shows a a red hilum ring on the inside and a purple one surrounding the red.  No geographical origin info given.

 

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