Allotments 4 All

We have just had an enormous Bramley apple that was infected with some kind of fungus cut down and the stump ground out. This will give me an additional about 12' x 10' to grow vegetables, great excitement.  My soil is pretty good loam but obviously this area has had the tree in it for many many years and now has lots of chippings from the stump grinding mixed in and spread around.  I expect the stump grinder has chopped up and distributed the ground elder pretty well too.

I have a large heap of fairly well rotted manure available, it is dark but still quite sticky.  Also a reasonable amount of good crumbly garden compost.

I am hoping to do something quite quick and simple with this area so that I can grow crops in it this year and improve the soil at the same time.  I can't decide whether to put in the maincrop potatoes (and if so, dig or no-dig?) or squash.  I'm also not sure whether I should try to dig out the chippings where I can or if it is OK to dig them in.

What would you all do?  Any suggestions gratefully received, thanks.

if it were my choice I would opt for spuds, will help no end especially if you put the manure on first and then by next year you will know how the whole area is panning out and can rotate to some other crop  :)

Thank you Calendula.

Now, as to details. Would you just spread manure on surface or dig in/trench?

And is it OK to put potatoes directly onto manure? I have seen this suggested but I'm not sure if it is really a good idea?? 

can only really tell you what I do - spread manure over the areas where I intend to plant spuds and when I dig the trenches for planting the manure automatically gets dug in, if you are planning the no dig method you will need a lot of top cover to give the spuds enough depth to grow

manure (as long as it is good stock) is excellent for spuds, slugs tend not to like it, it enriches for the crop and will still be viable for whatever follows on the from spuds and next year's crop as well - it is a no lose situation really - wait and see what others suggest though

Quote from: calendula on March 15, 2011, 14:26:32
can only really tell you what I do - spread manure over the areas where I intend to plant spuds and when I dig the trenches for planting the manure automatically gets dug in, if you are planning the no dig method you will need a lot of top cover to give the spuds enough depth to grow

manure (as long as it is good stock) is excellent for spuds, slugs tend not to like it, it enriches for the crop and will still be viable for whatever follows on the from spuds and next year's crop as well - it is a no lose situation really - wait and see what others suggest though

We do exactly what calendula said and we have got a new bit of ground this year to work on and the first crop going in is spuds

Hi - I dont want to be a doom mongerer but hope this wasnt honey fungus? I think this is particularly nasty and can spread to other trees and plants especially if wood/old soil with rhizomes still present. The RHS have info - and lots of info if you google it. Hope it wasnt honey fungus!!

Quote from: gwynleg on March 15, 2011, 19:20:20
Hi - I dont want to be a doom mongerer but hope this wasnt honey fungus? I think this is particularly nasty and can spread to other trees and plants especially if wood/old soil with rhizomes still present. The RHS have info - and lots of info if you google it. Hope it wasnt honey fungus!!

Gosh, what I horrible possibility, hadn't occurred to me, but no, I don't think so.  There were no signs of it, not that I have ever had it, but I do know what to look for. 

The tree was ancient, it had once four enormous trunks and gradually they were all rotting and going hollow, it had only 2 left and the base was starting to go as well. I think the fungal growths were coming because it was dying, not the other way around.  Anyway it looked nothing like honey fungus, thankfully.  I've been out there today digging and there were no rhizomes in the soil at all, let alone the black bootstrap type you are supposed to get with h f.

If you don't want to do any more digging then squash would be good - spread the manure over the area, then either cover with some cheapo weed suppresant (or not), then plant the squash. I did an area like this last year with about 3" of manure, covered and the ground there is lovely, have even used a hoe on it this year (previously unheard of with my heavy clay)  :)

Agree with the covering with manure and adding black plastic/weed suppresing membrane. Plant squash through some holes in June, and leave the area covered overwinter. Next year you will have a lovely clear area to do what you like with!

Quote from: Morris on March 15, 2011, 19:32:46
The tree was ancient, it had once four enormous trunks and gradually they were all rotting and going hollow, it had only 2 left and the base was starting to go as well. I think the fungal growths were coming because it was dying, not the other way around.  Anyway it looked nothing like honey fungus, thankfully.  I've been out there today digging and there were no rhizomes in the soil at all, let alone the black bootstrap type you are supposed to get with h f.

What did the fungus look like? Honey fungus is an orange-brown mushroomy thing.

As I said, I do know what honey fungus looks like  ;)

Anyway, it was grey, in small lobes layered over each other.

I think I started a red herring with the fungus, I didn't express myself very clearly. I am pretty certain the tree was dying and was therefore colonised by fungus rather than the other way around.  It was very old, our house is over 250 years old, don't know when the tree was planted but a long time ago. Sad but nothing lives forever.

No need to worry; it probably was a saprophyte.

Which ever option you may go you need to deal with the wood shaving..those will take lot of nitrogen from the soil for their rotting process so, I would give good sprinkling of nitrogen rich fertilizer now..chicken pellets or growmore.
Trouble with spuds is that you will still have good roos system left in ground from the tree and trying to get spuds into ground like that and for them to grow might be bit too much for this year. I would go for squash option..try to dig some planting holes to see how many gaps you can create and then spread your 'good stuff around these holes. Even if it is fresh manure ..it doesn't matter as there is still good two months for it to mellow down before you squashes will be planted. ;) And then during growing season you can keep adding some half composted stuff as and when you get it done..squashes don't mind and they are greedy crop..more the merrier.

Thank you everyone for your points of view which have been really helpful in making up my mind.

Just to let you know I have decided to go with squash.  This gives me a couple of months to get myself organised and not rush too much with the shovelling when there are a million other jobs to get on with. The manure is very well rotted so I can spread it and not need to wait too long.

My squash should have a very happy time - let's now hope for some sunshine as well!

We ate the last of the Bramleys tonight in apple sauce, goodbye poor old tree  :'(

Quote from: Morris on March 20, 2011, 19:47:46
let's now hope for some sunshine as well!

Yes lets hope for lots of sunshine! Hope you have a good gardening year  :)

Well, following the discussion above, I now have a lovely layer of well rotted manure under landscape fabric ready for beans/sweetcorn/squash to be planted out from pots and roottrainers in a few weeks.

Can I ask a further question?

I've never planted this way before. What if any of the above will be OK planted straight into the manure? Or do I need to fork through the section where I will be planting to mix earth with the manure? It is very well rotted but I'm worried it will be too rich for the young roots?

Thanks again for your help and advice.  :)

Just something to remember on leaving the wood chips in the soil. They will rot down over time, but they will use valuable Nitrogen from your soil in doing so.

I tend to mix a trowel full of potting compost in when I'm planting mine Morris, but I'm not sure if it is necessary.

This year I had some volunteer potatoes growing straight through teh pile of manure! It was not that rotted! I dug up teh spuds 4 days ago, they were already huge!  So I would not hesitate to plant squash straight into the manure although it might be easier to make a small hole and plant them into a little compost, otherwise you;ve got to put your hands in the s**t!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D