Allotments 4 All

I've got a load of manure (as previously mentioned!) for the first time in several years. I've started a manure test just in case, as the supplier does buy in straw for his cows, even though his father uses the manure on his own veg garden without problems.

Anyway - is this still necessary? Do you bother? And how long should I leave the test before spreading the dung around the garden?

The test is a large pot in the greenhouse 50:50 manure (sampled from different points in the heap): mp compost, planted up with pea seedlings (because I had a lot of peas) and one broad bean, with a 'control' in just mp compost.

You should really test all sources of manure as the straw could have been contaminated.  If your test beans and peas are growing healthily and are of a decent size and your dad is using the same stuff then I would think it is safe to use!

Personally I dont bother as I get mine from a couple of reliable sources that a lot of fellow plotholders use.

Can someone explain what the problem is with manure and the potential consequences?  Why do you need to test it and how do you test it?

Hi David, and welcome to A4A..

A lot of manure was contaminated with aminopyralid... a herbicide. It persists in the herbage, even when eaten and digested by ruminants. If your manure has been contaminated you are basically poisoning your plants. Most broad leaves are susceptible. To check plant a few broad beans in some manure... the leaves and stems will be distorted within a week of germination..
>:(

Thanks saddad I think you've answered my question.

So if my pea/broad bean seedlings are growing on strongly after a week in the manure mix, it should be safe?

BTW it wasn't my dad using the manure but the supplier's father, barriedalenick, so it is a bit third hand for me, also as they have a massive manure pile parts of which haven't been touched for years. 

The effects are so devastating I think it is well worth testing manure.  It does not take long for the peas/beans to start to look sad.  Broad beans are particularly susceptible.  The wrecked stuff seems to be able to last for years in manure.  Large lump are even more likely to keep hold of it. 

Would it affect strawberries and Raspberries as I spread about 3 inches of partially rotted manure around them in autumn?

The strawberry plants are looking okay though.

Yes it would... but it obviously hasn't... you would have noticed by now,...  :)

Raspberries seem to be particularly suscepible someone on our site had an almost total wipeout of their canes.   I watched mine very carefully and managed to move a few at the first sign of the leaves cupping up. 

Digeroo it sounds as if you had contamination at your site and on your own plot. I am very sorry if that is so, it must have been a nightmare. Hope all is well now?

Several points strike me on reading the posts.
1. Aminopyralid, if present is contained in the grass, hay or silage that has been fed to the animals. At the moment, it is not licenced for use on cereal crops and should not be present in straw.
2. As the aminopyralid is only released when the grass, hay or silage breaks down with the action of soil bacteria, it will take several weeks for this to happen, provided that the soil temperature is high enough. This is why it frequently effects the plants in the early summer, even though the manure may have been in the ground from the Autumn.
3. In my view, it is essential to test supplies of manure as it is likely that there are still plenty  of supplies of contaminated manure around.
I have been carrying out the "bean" test on supplies of horse manure from a new source for the last couple of months. Started with a pot of the mixture in  a poly bag in my back bedroom for the extra heat, and now transferred to my greenhouse. The things I do for the allotments!!!!!

For details of the "bean" test and photos of the effects of aminopyralid, see this page :- http://www.growyourown.info/page164.html

Thank you realfood, you seem to know a lot about this. The farmer (smallscale local farmer with high welfare standards) buys in straw, which you say is OK, but I'm not sure if he makes his own silage or buys it in, I could ask.  I know he does have meadows which aren't sprayed and cuts them for hay.  If he doesn't buy in silage do you think that means the manure is OK to use straight away?

If I do go on with the test, how long do you think I need to wait for it to be finished?  I couldn't find anything definitive about this when I googled. The pot was mixed as described in your link, and planted up with pea and bean seedlings that were a couple of inches high. I have it in the heated greenhouse so it's quite warm. They are growing rapidly having about doubled in size in a week.

How long would you wait to be sure?

Thanks.

Our allotments suffered 2 years ago, so that is why I know the hard way, about it!! Most of the cases, including ours, occurred when the farmer bought in hay and silage to feed his cattle overwinter. His own potatoes were ruined!
If he does not spray with aminopyralid, and does not buy in hay or silage, his manure should be OK.
When I did a test with manure that I knew was contaminated, I found that it took several weeks for the bacteria to do their work and release the aminopyralid, which then affected the beans and peas.

I have suffered two years running.  I tested the manure very carefully and still managed to have a problem the second time but it was very small because I did test every batch.  I lost a few potatoes, and a couple of courgettes and quite a few broad bean plants.  I had to move several courgettes and some raspberries.  But one plot here had a huge amount of devastationg and lots of others had problems with their potatoes.  Funnily I had been the only one with problems the previous year and lost a set of runner beans which I had been breeding for years.  Since they were hand pollinated their was only one pod full of beans and I lost five of them. 

But I had brilliant brassicas and sweet corn.

We have been totally unable to trace how the contamination got in.  The farmer does not use the products and never has.   

There are now supposed to be strict rules attached to the use of aminopyralid and no hay etc is supposed to leave any farm where it is used.  It will be interesting to see whether the problems continue.  Problem is that it can remain in the manure for years.  In the end in soil the bacteria break it down but I am not sure of how this occurs.  Are some kinds of soil better than others, are the temperatures and rainfull inportant.  We used the same pile of manure and year one had little problem but years two a huge problem and still do not know why there was a difference.

I rather wished once they had banned it that would be the last of it, so was devasted when they agreed to reinstate it.  I am not convinced that the farmers will stick to the rules and it had proved impossible to trace it back if they do let it off their land.

The americans held BP responsible for the oil leak, I really feel we shoudl hold Dow responsible for the contamination however it arrives.

I also have one raspberry plant at home with cupped leaves and it have not been anywhere near any manure so I am very confused about that.

From what I've been able to discover, aminopyralid bonds to lignin, which is the stuff that makes woody material woody. It's extremely slow to break down, and only releases the aminopyralid as it does so. Once the lignin's gone, aminopyralid leaches out of the soil. what happens to it then, or how long it lasts in the environment, I don't know.

Digeroo, I have seen problems on rasps when they had got a tiny whiff of glyphosate weedkiller. They are very susceptible to it.

i had related problems with my maincrop last year

our farmer had to buy in haylage and straw to then sell on to us for our horses the year before

initial signs wasnt great,disfigured clamped up shoots,but they did recover and i had a decent display from the desiree that were affected

I have found a way around this

























Don't buy manure.   :P

i steal/borrow mine  :P

havent gone mad with it this year so shouldnt get the same issues   :-\

Quote from: BarriedaleNick on March 24, 2011, 11:42:04
You should really test all sources of manure as the straw could have been contaminated.  If your test beans and peas are growing healthily and are of a decent size and your dad is using the same stuff then I would think it is safe to use!

Personally I dont bother as I get mine from a couple of reliable sources that a lot of fellow plotholders use.

I did that...watched and waited and nobody had problems....then the stuff I bought from the same guy contaminated my whole plot.

I'd suggest everyone checks their sources before spreading it everywhere...it can ruin a whole year's planting.  :-[