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Did anyone watch this? Jimmy from "Jimmy's Farm" investigating GM crops. Some interesting thoughts.

Here's the link for iplayer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00fsxq6/Horizon_Jimmys_GM_Food_Fight/

My wife changed channels when I started shouting at the tv. I like the guy, but the science was poor. He said that selecting Sea Kale to give different varieties of Brassica is the same as Genetically Modifying plants. This is absolute nonsense. You can select all you like but you'll never end up with genetic information that belongs in a fish, inside a tomato!

GM takes it one step further than selection, and by the time we changed over this hadn't been made even vaguely clear. Maybe he rectified this later?

I did think he was good at pointing out how complicated it is - I have a brother & sister who both do things with DNA (as academics); One thinks GMing is cool, the other thinks it is absurdly dangerous to be releasing stuff that is far from completely understood. If the scientists can't agree, what hope for us mere mortals?

My view is that it could be great, but we (humans) will find a way to screw it up!

 ???

Hmm, know what you mean Ollie. My instinctive response is to be anti GM. I am not a scientist and watched the programme in the hope of learning something. Net result was the same as I had always thought: it's ok for us in the well fed west to bleat about adulterated crops, but try telling that to someone whose crops will be saved and he/she will then be able to feed an otherwise starving family.

At least the programme was there, maybe it will make some more people think?

:-\

  I feel quite strongly about this as I believe that we are in danger of decimating this planet of its food chain.

  Everything needs everything we have, and that includes us

  The food chain which keeps us all alive - and every living creature we share this planet with are all dependant on each other.  Break this chain and we and the creatures that are helpless in the hands of
those that would reach into the abbys of alternative science  --  they should take a long hard look
at what is essential for the good of the planet   ---  not just humankind.

 Now this leads to those who are starving in Africa and the children of thier next generations who will doubtfully survive famine and drought,  to me this down to supplying of so called leaders of these countries
with money only for the reason of keeping out communism and with no thought of where the money goes
--  usually into thier own pockets and not to the helpless people who need food !

 What can you do ?

 GM crops could save thier lives  ---   or a change in the political attitude towards the despots that   '' run ''
 these countries could and should make a differance.


  floss

gm is bad  (imo)
i can only talk about what happens in rats and i will have to look out the details but
rats fed on gm products had bad things go wrong with them
lbb

i will try and find the details in my stuff.

Did you know that we understand about 5% of the human Genome... The other 95% is called "junk" because nobody knows exactly what it does. How arrogant and stupid can we be to call everything we don't understand "junk"?!?!

LBB - was it something to do with the bacteria in the rat's guts were found to contain a section of DNA contained within the GM feed they'd had?

   Ollie c, please will you explain  , what is '' Genome ''  and what is called ' junk ' ?,

and what do you mean by  '' arrogant and stupid  ''   ?

   Sorry to be so   ' fick  ' but thought this was an educated discussion  ?

   floss
   

 :-\

Oh Eck, thought it was just an interesting point...

I didn't see the programme in question and I used to be undecided about GM until I watched a documentary about Monsanto (big american GM firm) which frightened the living daylights out of me.  Anyone who is interested in the subject should google the firm and watch the documentaries.  The ideas of "terminator genes" and "round-up ready plants" which they use and the way they are decimating the way of life in mexico and india is chilling.

GM is a very dangerous thing - we are making a huge presumption by messing with nature and thinking we understand it, whether our aims are good or not.  In the US firms like Monsanto are self regulating (i.e. not really regulated at all).

Interestingly, I also recently read an article perporting that organic farming methods were being taught to african farmers by groups in the UK and they were beginning to use them with great results.  Perhaps the answers are more simple than GM? 

Just food for thought!

Erm, didn't see the program myself so can't comment on that but aren't GM crops modified to be sterile?

So your farmer cannot keep seeds from GM crops to plant for following years. I imagine this is done so that every year said farmer has to but seeds from the manufacturers, so big $$$$ for them and kick in the teeth for a third world farmer with little money.

Now what would happen if this planned sterility crossed over into non-GM crops and they became infertile? Less diversity and more reliance on GM crops, and so a vicious circle until there's no choice but to eat GM crops.

BTW has anyone read that book, 'Death of Grass'? Could be a reality one day.

Cheerio.

Jon

  

  Sorry Katine,  but you have introduced a controversial issue that people are going
to want to express their  oppinions on ?

  It is an interesting point and I hope we can discuss it further ?

  floss

gm potatoes treated to produce an insectiside lectin, which is harmles to us and to rats

rats fed gm potatoes (ones sold in america right now)
suffered damaged immune systems, they had sluggish white blood cells, left them more open to disease
they had smaller less developed brains, livers and testicles.
some had enlarged pancreas and intestines
damaged thymus and spleen
atrophy of the liver
significant structure changes and proliferation of cells in stomach and intestines which may signal increased potential for cancer

this was from Pusztai, the world's expert on lectins


the rats developed the problems after only 10 days, some of the changes persisted for 110 days, coresponding to 10 years in a human

the gm potatoes were also found to have up to 20% less protien than the parent plants

   little babybird, thanks for that info !

   Knowone likes rats  --   but could all those ailments be transfered to the human system ?

   We should be very carefull where we tread --  it is a very dangerous path.

   floss

Thanks for the iplayer link Katie, reckon I've gotta watch this tonite. Pippy I remember the Monsanto documentary...like you, it scared me.

Quote from: FLOSSY on November 26, 2008, 20:02:26

   Ollie c, please will you explain  , what is '' Genome ''  and what is called ' junk ' ?,

and what do you mean by  '' arrogant and stupid  ''   ?

   Sorry to be so   ' fick  ' but thought this was an educated discussion  ?

   floss
   

Already I'm getting out of my depth - but a genome is a collection of genes & other stuff... we understand a bit, but nowhere near everything.
Loads of the information contained in the genome isn't understood & is referred to as "Junk DNA". I'm suggesting that we (humans in general & possibly some scientists) are arrogant to think that everything we don't understand is "junk"... We simply don't know enough about what goes on.

Sorry, Katy - I think you've started a great topic!

I read your "quotes" and therefore didn't think they were your words Ol, so agreed with your sentiments entirely :)

Perhaps we ought to remember that the world actually does produce enough food to feed its human (and other populations) well already. The distribution of food is the problem and sorry to say when "western" populations use 7.5 times the world resources to live, someone somewhere loses out.

By the way I agree with being a little scared of multinationals like Monsanto - they are not in this for kind words they are in it to make money. When a monoculture which GM crops will become are eventually attacked by some disease what will the poorer nations fall back on?

The science bits - why do this just because we can?

soy, maize, sorghum, canola, alfalfa, and cotton are roundup ready in the states and they are developing roundup ready wheat!
roundup ready basicly means the product is immune to roundup  so the farmer can spray the field to kil the weeds before harvest and harvest a clean crop

Quote from: OllieC on November 26, 2008, 20:55:14

Quote from: FLOSSY on November 26, 2008, 20:02:26

   Ollie c, please will you explain  , what is '' Genome ''  and what is called ' junk ' ?,

and what do you mean by  '' arrogant and stupid  ''   ?

   Sorry to be so   ' fick  ' but thought this was an educated discussion  ?

   floss
   

Already I'm getting out of my depth - but a genome is a collection of genes & other stuff... we understand a bit, but nowhere near everything.
Loads of the information contained in the genome isn't understood & is referred to as "Junk DNA". I'm suggesting that we (humans in general & possibly some scientists) are arrogant to think that everything we don't understand is "junk"... We simply don't know enough about what goes on.

Sorry, Katy - I think you've started a great topic!

Research is now suggesting that some of this "junk DNA" is actually involved in regulation of genes e.g switching them on and off so it actually has a very important role.

   Thank you OllieC , 

   I appreciate your reply , I understand more now  that you have explained the
   terminology, 

    Katy, hope I didn't offend  --  it is a great topic and i thank you for it,

    floss xxx