Allotments 4 All

Hi All,

I am in Kent and want to use an allotment to grow bonsai, dwarfed stunted trees as well as Fruit and Veg. My Allotments officer says she is not happy with me using a small portion of a 1/2 allotment for this purpose. The 1950 act says that there should be so much space between trees and fences boundarys etc but no other prohibition except I shouldnt plant anything that takes longer than a year to mature. In the case of these small trees I shall be digging them up root pruning them and putting them back for another year, so I dont think she can refuse me can she?

Rick Stewart

>:(
Sounds like a "jobsworth" to me!! If the rest of the plot is deemed "suitable" how can she object? If you have explained about the pulling them up and pruning thing it seems straightforward enough to me!!  Have you spoken to the secretary of your site? If they don't have a problem it should be ok, just stick to your guns!!

I work for a council and know that if worst comes to worst a letter to your local councillor usually does the trick, a council officer has to reply within 7 days I think, and they will all do anything to get out of actually doing anything that upsets elected members, it might be worth a try!!

Quote from: blackasnight on March 11, 2006, 00:48:58
Hi All,

I am in Kent and want to use an allotment to grow bonsai, dwarfed stunted trees as well as Fruit and Veg. My Allotments officer says she is not happy with me using a small portion of a 1/2 allotment for this purpose. The 1950 act says that there should be so much space between trees and fences boundarys etc but no other prohibition except I shouldnt plant anything that takes longer than a year to mature. In the case of these small trees I shall be digging them up root pruning them and putting them back for another year, so I dont think she can refuse me can she?

Rick Stewart

Is it really that she suspects that you are growing bonsai to sell?

I think amphibian has a point.  At one time allotments were strictly for growing vegetables but nowadays allotments are also classed as leisure gardens so  members can usually grow almost anything in the ornamental line. So I can only think that if you are growing something unusual in bulk, then the suspicion will be that there is some sort of commercial use for them. If you can persuade her that is not the case, I really can't see why she would object.   :) busy_lizzie

allotments have to be for personal use and not for any kind of profit making. Thats the law. What do you plan to do with the tree cuttings?? I think it sounds to her and to me that you plan to sell them etc.

Most allotments usually sell the odd thingsfrom spares etc but you cant be doing it all the time and with the intentions, the small odd bits that you sell wont really bother the allotment officer.

Quote from: blackasnight on March 11, 2006, 00:48:58
no other prohibition except I shouldnt plant anything that takes longer than a year to mature
Rick Stewart

Does this mean that no-one can grow asparagus, artichokes, seakale, fruit trees or bushes, or perennial herbs or rhubub on your allotment site? Sounds very unusual. If you plan to sell your bonsai commercially, your allotment officer is just doing her job. If not, showing her your trees, how you look after them, and how you plan to use them might tip the balance. Still baffled about the 'longer than a year to mature' rule though! ???

The thing about nothing which takes longer than a year to mature is very common if you look at the small print; I think it's to avoid having to pay compensation for lost crops. It would be most unusual for it to be enforced though.

Yes Robert it seems usual to have that on most tenancy agreements.  I think it is because of things like apple trees and other fruit trees, which you can't easily dig up and replant.  It is to stop disputes about who owns them when the tenant leaves. We have an informal agreement in our society that these are left for the next tenant and no money needs to change hands and once you plant something like that it belongs to the new plot holder. busy_lizzie

I think that's pretty much normal.

In the 'Good old days' way back if you wanted something to go with ya roast ya used to go down the allotments and see if any allotment holder would give you a cabage or some rhubarb. You used to give him a few bob and then that used to help him with fresh seed for the next season. Some allotment holders have always made a few pence but nothing major. I find it good that you can do that and it is sad that many more kids dont do that, all they seem to do is to go down to the allotments and trash them.

The_Snail

PS. Rule are rules. And not all allotment officers or secutaries are difficult ;)

In my 'other life' I'm a councillor and to be honest with you, most local authorities really don't have the resources to enforce petty regulations. Dealing with ASBOs, regulatory functions, planning, land transactions taxi licencing, food standards work, housing legislation are all far more important to legal sections than the question of whether bonsai can be planted on allotments.

If you dig them up every year to prune the roots then I would be tempted to just do it.

After all, its not harming anyone and makes the allotments a much more interesting place.

Quote from: the_snail on March 12, 2006, 03:32:02
ya used to go down the allotments and see if any allotment holder would give you a cabage or some rhubarb. You used to give him a few bob and then that used to help him with fresh seed for the next season.

Or see if you could do a swop with somebody.

Geoff.

Sounds like just a bit of posturing by your Lottie Officer to me!  I'd just go for it; it's not exactly likely to end in court given the state of most Council finances!

And would the Officer rather the plot was vacant and overgrown instead........?

Andy

Hi All,
Thank you all for your kind words of encouragement, I think the allotment officer needs a jobsworth hat too! I shall keep up the pressure and if that does not work will talk to my councillor.  For those who may not be familiar with bonsai techniques, it is common for small stunted trees to be planted in open ground for a year or two to fatten the trunks, they are then potted up into a shallow bonsai pot as usual. In addition I want to plant some short trees to air layer them so that the trunk is more in proportion with the branches. I have quite a few Acers which could do with the fattening process and also I would like to create one or two raft bonsai's, created by cutting the branches off one side of the tree, cutting the bark away on the same side and then sinking the trunk into the soil so that roots form at regular intervals along the trunk. The branches that stick up are then pruned and wired for shape and when the rootas have formed along the underside of the trunk, the bottom roots are then removed. Also if you plant standard trees, such as apple or pear and then cut the trunk 7-8 inches from the soil in a "v" shape and coat the cut with 'seal and heal' wound sealant you get new growth sprouting all around the cut which allows you to create broom style trees. That is why I would like a little space alongside some good old fruit and veg to practice these horticultural devices. As you can imagine this would look ungainly in a domestic garden but would be acceptable in an allotment. I dont want to sell these trees it is really just some ground to practice these techniques that I want. Once they are successful they will join the rest of my bonsai at home. I shall let you know how I get on. Again thank you all for your advice.
Rick Stewart

good luck! Would be great to see pics of step by step process of making a new tree into a bonsai!

Guess that would be time consuming though.......

the word TWOT comes to mind  ::)

what a jobs worth

As the thread is 4 years old & the OP only ever made 2 posts on this site both in this thread & hasn't logged on since 23:59 on March 12, 2006 there probably isn't much point continuing the discussion.

trust baccyman to put a dampener on things....   ;D

Obviously, you need to read the agreement you signed when you took on the plot. It should be clear. Typically, stated permitted crops will be edible vegetables, herbs, fruit, nuts, and flowers. Progressive boroughs may also specify recognised companion species, and green manure crops.

Non-productive trees and shrubs (including bonsai) would fall outside this specification.

Quote from: Ian Pearson on April 27, 2010, 10:55:11
Obviously, you need to read the agreement you signed when you took on the plot. It should be clear. Typically, stated permitted crops will be edible vegetables, herbs, fruit, nuts, and flowers. Progressive boroughs may also specify recognised companion species, and green manure crops.

Non-productive trees and shrubs (including bonsai) would fall outside this specification.

Ian, you're right about checking the agreement, but I think it's unusual for the agreement to specify an inclusive list of what you can grow.  It's traditional and accepted allotment practice to grow a whole bunch of stuff that is neither fruit nor veg but the usual prohibitions are usually only on trees because of the shading problem and the difficulty for the next tenant of getting rid of them.  I've certainly seen rules prohibiting anything permanent and anything that takes more than a year to mature, though I think those rules should be challenged as they are not in the spirit of the allotment movement.

It's not ideal but I'd suggest that there should be no objection to bonsai in pots.