Seed Saving Circle 2024

[galina]

It is a cucurbita maxima squash landrace, so should do fine in UK. I quote"....the Desert Spirit has many varieties in its heritage, including Buttercup, our beloved Oregon Homestead Sweet Meat and others."  I agree an exciting addition, thank you Juliev.

https://vitalseeds.co.uk/product/winter-squash-desert-spirit-landrace-organic-new-for-2023/

[galina]

[JanG]

An update for the Circle. All UK seeds plus Galina's have now safely arrived - thank you Vetivert. The only parcel not with me is Ruud's from the Netherlands which was posted on Monday.
Keep fingers crossed for a smooth and rapid passage.As soon as it arrives I'll hope to do a fairly rapid turn around and despatch. 

[galina]

Oh Wow!  Look at this. 
https://www.seedsofscotland.com/products/winter-squash-desert-spirit-landrace#:~:text=Cucurbita%20maxima%20%2D%20approximately%2012%20seeds,which%20have%20a%20wonderful%20taste.

" A reliable harvest from plants grown outside in the Highlands. "  And yes, they do mean the highlands in Scotland!  I think this answers your question Jang. 

Excellent news, hope the last package will come very fast too.  Thank you Jang.

[JanG]

" A reliable harvest from plants grown outside in the Highlands. "  And yes, they do mean the highlands in Scotland!  I think this answers your question Jang. 

Let's hope they grew as well as that for Juliev. I had seen the rather remarkable pictures and was hoping to hear whether Julie's experiences were comparable. I was also guessing that she had bought the seeds from Vital Seeds but wanted to check.
Certainly seems an exciting and very promising landrace.

[JanG]

This is impressive too!

[juliev]

Hello everyone,

The tomato Sunfired flare is from Vital Seeds. It grew well in the small polytunnel. Very pretty, similar to Blue beauty.

I have two sources of seeds for the Desert Spirit landrace (Vital Seeds and Seeds of Scotland). I've been working on my own squash population so was very excited to see what a "finished" landrace would be like. They grew very well from direct seeding. I grow most of my squashes direct, no watering or any special treatment apart from hand-pollinating.
The jury is still out on its performance in the kitchen... They were very very dry/starchy (extremely so). They made fabulous gnocchi but a grainy unpleasant soup. Quite chesnut-y but not the best we've had. I still have two in storage. I'm hoping that some of the starch will have converted into sugars... We'll see.

Family photo to show phenotypes, 4 plants in total (I'm curious to see what will show up in future generations). 3 fruits were hand-pollinated using as many male flowers I could find for diversity.   

[galina]

So they appear to have been selected for dense, dry, chestnutty flesh.  Hope the last two will be much sweeter after a few more weeks or months of storage.  Lovely to see the family photo of all the different appearances Juliev. 

How would you rate them in comparison with Buttercup, Queensland Blue or Sibley if you have grown any of these? 

[JanG]

Hello everyone,

The tomato Sunfired flare is from Vital Seeds. It grew well in the small polytunnel. Very pretty, similar to Blue beauty.

I have two sources of seeds for the Desert Spirit landrace (Vital Seeds and Seeds of Scotland). I've been working on my own squash population so was very excited to see what a "finished" landrace would be like. They grew very well from direct seeding. I grow most of my squashes direct, no watering or any special treatment apart from hand-pollinating.
The jury is still out on its performance in the kitchen... They were very very dry/starchy (extremely so). They made fabulous gnocchi but a grainy unpleasant soup. Quite chesnut-y but not the best we've had. I still have two in storage. I'm hoping that some of the starch will have converted into sugars... We'll see.

Family photo to show phenotypes, 4 plants in total (I'm curious to see what will show up in future generations). 3 fruits were hand-pollinated using as many male flowers I could find for diversity.   

That's really interesting and great to have your photos. It will indeed be interesting to see how much variation occurs over subsequent generations.It looks like you have four phenotypes from four plants and we don't know how many phenotypes there is potential for. With up to six more seed circle members growing them we should between us be able to get quite a broad idea of what they offer.

Did you detect any difference in flavour or texture in the different types? I guess they were fairly young when you ate them.

[JanG]

I'd like to put out a plea for notes - and photos if you have them - on the varieties you have sent to the circle. I shall start compiling the database in the next couple of days and will put on as much information as I can gather. I'm quite happy to sort out any info which is available on the internet but it's particular important, to my mind, to know where you sourced the seed so that its lineage can be traced. Also it's great to have personal observations and experiences.

Thank you, Galina, for your full and detailed notes and for the photos which have now thankfully been restored following the A4A update.I look forward to some interesting information from others.  🙏🏼🙏🏼

[galina]

Did you detect any difference in flavour or texture in the different types? I guess they were fairly young when you ate them.

For which thank you Juliev.  Knowing that they will taste better later, but still extracting seeds from not just the one, but three for the circle, is very appreciated. 

[juliev]

Alright... taste test time... (I'm very dedicated  )

I cut open a Desert Spirit Landrace (the first fruit from all the plants, had time to mature fully and is cured by now), a dark green one that looks like a Buttercup without a cup? (It is either a buttercup or a buttercup crossed with a similar variety) and a Rouge Vif d'Etampes (which was roasted in a different dish because it is very watery).

As expected, RVE was a watery mess (but will turn into delicious soup).
DSL was very sweet (too sweet), a little chestnutty, still a bit grainy/pasty. "cloying" was DH's comment.
Buttercup(?) was very flavourful, great balance of chestnut and sweetness, smooth and creamy. Favourite all round.

Taste test photo, from left to right: Buttercup(?), Desert Spirit Landrace, Rouge Vif d'Etampes.

Overall:
DSL is an easy-going variety for the garden. The fruits are a good size and visually attractive (bonus points for the diversity), the seed cavity is small.
I'm planning to grow two patches next year, one "pure" to see the diversity and one to mix it with our favourites (Buttercup, Marina di Chioggia, Blue Kuri, Crown Prince, Uchiki Kuri...)to hopefully fine-tune the flavour and texture.

[juliev]

Did you detect any difference in flavour or texture in the different types? I guess they were fairly young when you ate them.

They were fairly similar, the smallest wasn't as dry as the other two but it was the last fruit to form.

[juliev]

Tomatoes:
Garnet, Thompson and Morgan
Sunfired Flare, Vital Seeds, very pretty, grew well in the polytunnel.

Winter squash:
Desert Spirit Landrace, Vital Seeds and Seeds of Scotland

Sussex flax (linseed), originally from Real Seeds

Peas:
Mr Bound, Incredible Seed Library, tall variety, quite late to dry out
Boddington, Incredible Seed Library, tall variety

DFB:
Mor Kristin, Beans and Herbs
Montezuma, Incredible Seed Library. Listed as tall bush/semi climbers but I have grown them without support for two years and they didn't look any taller than their neighbours.
Wieringer Bohne, Beans and Herbs

CFB:
Bonne Bouche, Incredible Seed Library
Tiger Bean, Beans and Herbs
Montegusto, Thompson and Morgan

All the peas and beans listed were direct seeded and left to get on with it until harvest.
ps: I should probably add that precious seeds get a bit more TLC... 

[JanG]

That's great, Juliev. Thanks for the very helpful info on your seed sources. The Incredible Seed Library is new to me and does indeed seem incredible. It's difficult to know how they gather enough seeds to supply all takers or perhaps I've missed something. It's wonderful that they can succeed in such a worthwhile endeavour.

I've grown a variety called Montezuma's Red which came from HSL. I'm guessing that it's the same and the Red has been dropped at some point. I grew it as a semi so interested that you found it worked as dwarf. Lovely deep red seeds.

Great reporting on the taste test too.    It's interesting that Desert Spirit Landrace continues to be a bit grainy. Vital Seeds says that Buttercup and Oregon Homestead Sweetmeat were among the parents of the landrace and they're both good tasty varieties. I'm wondering where the less appealing texture comes from and why a more grainy variety was included. 

[JanG]

https://jerrasgarden.myshopify.com/cdn/shop/products/dragontonguemustard1.jpg?v=1675086784&width=2048

Markfield R, is your Dragon's Tongue like the one in this photo? There seem to be one or two possibilities, for example a rocket variety with that name too. This one is a mustard, although I'm not sure that that term doesn't cover quite a range of things.

[galina]

I have so far not included a description of tomato De Pinto and for Climbing French Bean, Ruth Bible.  Mainly because I forgot to take photos. 

Tatiana's tomatobase to the rescue. https://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/DePinto

"First offered in the Seed Savers 2001 Yearbook by Sharon Vadas-Arendt of Longmont, Colorado (CO VA S), who got seed from M. Schulyz of Monroe, Washington (WA SC M)." 

My seeds came from Sharon,  who literally saved this Italian family tomato from the de Pinto immigrant family to USA, from extinction, after nobody of that family carried on gardening. (Similar to her rescue of family bean 'Cousin Oliver' we had in the circle a while ago). Sharon grew and then offered these indeterminate tomato seeds far and wide, including in Seed Savers Exchange, the Heritage Seed Library equivalent in the USA.  It is a classic Italian family tomato, round, very slightly oblong, excellent flavour, smallish salad type that is equally suitable for tomato sauce and for freezing. 

Ruth Bible is an Appalachian bean, somewhat similar to Frank Barnett, but matures later.  Very high yielding and the seeds are not as a rule cut-short like FB.  My seed donor was Vetivert, who generously shared her packet.  The original source OS is MacMex, aka George Mc Laughlin of Oklahoma USA.  Here is an SSE article about George and his seedsaving experiences right from childhood.   https://seedsavers.org/stewardship-stories-george-mclaughlin/

George also hosts his own gardening and seedsaving group with a very informative entry about the Ruth Bible bean.  https://seedsavingnetwork.proboards.com/thread/309/notes-ruth-bible-pole-bean

[garrett]

I'll start with my list, giving whatever information I can find, photos (if I remembered to take some!) and personal impressions.

Dierama Pulcherrimum Blackberry Bells, grown from seeds originally from Plant World Seeds. Very easy to grow, germinates easily but I recommend sowing immediately with fresh seed as it's a very good candidate for winter sowing. Once germinated, the seedlings look like little blades of grass. The downside is they can take a few years to flower, but I've found them trouble free in all the years I've grown them. Here's what say about it:

Family: Iridaceae
Common name: Angel's Fishing Rods,
Dierama pulcherrimum 'Blackberry Bells

This vigorous hybrid was bred here between 'Cosmos' and Dierama robustum, inheriting some of the darkness from the former flower, but with much larger, deep purple-maroon flared trumpets on very tall, strong springy stems, arising from thick, strong, blade-like leaves. This fabulous plant, coming almost 100% true from seed, makes a strong, solid clump as it matures over the years!

[garrett]

Hollyhock Halo Red

I can't find out much about this one. It's a selection from the Halo series. I like it because it isn't too tall and doesn't need staking, even in my windy seaside garden. It has beautiful, silky petals. I forgot to take my own picture so I've attached one I found online. I've also found it to be rust free unlike every other hollyhock I've tried here.

Plants were originally grown from Thompson and Morgan seed.

[garrett]

Cucumber Miniature White

I can't find any romantic origin story for this cucumber but here's a description:

Popular yellow-white miniature eating cucumber. Best eaten when fruits are less than 3" long. Mild sweet flavor, no need to peel. Productive vines rarely exceed 3' in length; suitable for container gardening.

I haven't had much luck growing cucumbers outside but this variety grows very well in a large container using a one metre obelisk for support. A firm favourite with my tortoise. Plants grown from seed originally from the Incredible Seed Library.

[garrett]

Sweet Pepper Mini Bell Chocolate

Plants grown from seed originally from Happy Green Shop. These are short, bushy plants with small snack sized fruit. Exact breeding origin is not clear. I forgot to take a picture so I'm using one I found online.