Are lasagne beds any good ?

[pierre]

I am considering experimenting with a couple of lasagne beds for some vegetables. There is lots of information about building them but not a lot about how effective they are. Is it worth doing, I would really appreciate your comments before I start to build them.
Thanks Pierre

[pierre]

[artichoke]

I did a comparison a few years ago by making and extending a lasagne bed placed on grassland, versus digging out unimproved grassland in a similar sized bed.

The advantage of the lasagne was that within a few days of taking on an untouched plot I could plant tomatoes, squashes and a few others I now forget - they grew well - for some time that area was the best soil in the allotment that I eventually cleared entirely, mainly by digging.

The disadvantages were: nearly broke my back and did break a sack trolley wheeling and carrying all the materials down a steep track (could not use a car on it). Those I bought were expensive. Over time, the supposedly smothered couch grass and convulvulus broke through and had to be dug out.

The advantage of thorough digging in the grassland was that I could get these thugs out, though of course they have crept back since and it is a constant battle.

For a time I had a successful bed formed by putting down cardboard and covering it with sackfuls of weeds (from the digging) and covering them with a tarpaulin and leaving them all to rot down for over a year. It was quite good fun eventually tipping out all the sacks, raking it over, and planting it up.

Since then I have radically rearranged all my beds to run across the slope instead of down it (an early mistake) and grown potatoes here and there (digging method) so I have lost touch with exactly where the lasagne beds were.

I currently have a large sort-of-lasagne bed made as follows: year one, I set out 14 straw bales over a tarpaulin and cardboard and tried to grow squashes in them - only moderately successful. Year two, spread the rotted straw around a largish area after putting down cardboard and newspaper and adding what home made compost I could lay my hands on, ready for a bigger squash bed - only moderately successful. Year 3, added loads more homemade compost and put brassicas, corn, squashes, spinach into the bed, and am particularly pleased with the brassicas and the general cleanliness and fertility of the bed, and the fact that I have never taken a spade to it except to prise out the occasional neglected dock etc.

I don't know what you'll make of this - just trying to answer your question. I hope someone else who has been more organised with their lasagne beds will come in soon.

I have looked with envy at advice sites where the writer has access to heavy machinery and tons of manure and compost.....the results look wonderful. Failing that, the work is laborious and the costs (if you have to buy sackfuls of soil/compost) rather off putting.

[Paulines7]

When I first saw Pierre's post, I thought it was a wind up!        I had heard of the Panorama programme growing spaghetti on trees, but having a lasagne bed?   

After reading Artichokes post though, I Googled and realised that Pierre was not joking and there were such things as lasagna beds.

It really was a new one on me!    

[pierre]

Thanks for that first hand information Artichoke. I might wait till I can get more information about them before I take the plunge.

[Jeannine]

I bought the book a few years ago, it was the daftest most boring repetitive book I ever read on gardening so I chucked it, I see loads of them in the secondhand book sections of the charity shops here so I must not have been the only  one. I had a couple of garden neighbors try it, their opinion was that it was a waste of time, the piles shrunk so quickly that they were forever adding to them after a couple of seasons they gave up.. that;s as much as my knowledge takes me .

XX Jeannine

[terrier]

I'm rather in favour of this type of bed making, although I've only used this system for permenant planting (shrubs and annual flowers). I've not read any books on this system but gleaned as much info off the net as I could find. The benefits to me were less weed infestation so less weeding which allowed the plants to settle more quickly. The beds, two of, compared to two normally dug (new) beds, produced larger healthier growth and, to my mind were no extra bother to set up. It's encouraged me to try setting up lasagne beds for veg as soon as the weather allows in the coming spring. A lot of work, I know, but the idea of 'no dig' beds in the long term is becoming more appealing to me as I get older. No matter what system you use, regular maintenence is a key factor in maintaining good beds, a little neglect can mean a lot of extra work.

[Doris_Pinks]

My whole back garden was done this way, all I had was grass and the thought of trying to dig it all up was off-putting!
By covering it all with cardboard, and layering it was a more instant fix to look at beds rather than lawn  over the winter.

I did a few on the allotment too with success, but as stated to do it on a large scale you would need masses of vegetation for the layers. They eventually become like any other bed after a number of years, in that you have to add more compost manure etc. but they worked for me.
These days I try and find straw, lay it down and cover it with manure, when it rots down it makes for a great bed on the plot

DP

[GrannieAnnie]

My limited experiences with lasagne beds is in small areas of our yard. Yearly I snitch more of my husband's cherished lawn to convert or extend flowerbeds. shutting out the light with cardboard does work to kill weeds, and I don't have to lift sod. Downside: It doesn't look nice for a season; a real eye-sore.

Of course, where I've fallen off mulching those flowerbeds in later seasons, letting perennials reseed themselves in those beds, the weeds (mainly stilt grass) spring up with the flowering perennials. Why am I surprised? More time is needed for mulching...which requires more lifting. Probably, I should reduce the flowerbeds, not extend them, but where's the fun trying new plants then?

Then in the fenced-off veg garden I also now do no-dig, but in raised beds for the most part. I keep soil covered with cardboard/newspaper layered over with whatever (compost/pulled weeds/clippings) and I had practically zero weeding there. A pleasant surprise.

Big exception are the veg garden paths.Those that aren't covered in a woven-black-plastic sheeting need weeding which I consider a big waste of time and energy. But that's a whole other discussion.

[Digeroo]

Very interested in this thread because I am trying to go no dig. 

I grew potatoes in a bed piled up with leaves, straw and weeds.   Not an eyesore as the potato plants covered it all.  Very few weeds,  Great crop of potatoes, all next years are going to be done this way.  Did a similar bed for my broad beans, the straw/leaves etc was 3/4 of the way up the bottle cloches.  Beans did very well again very few weeds.  I am already building my beds for next year.  The beans will start to go in chitted in February.   

There are a lot of leaves around at the moment so they are going into Dalek bins with some preheated grass clippings, they will be used for the potato beds in the spring.   

I do not use cardboard because the voles and deer break it up and bits blow all over the place.  It goes into the compost bin.

The was a problem with slug eggs in the straw but I think a hedgehog dealt with them because they disappeared.

Not quite lasagne but I find Charles Dowding's books no dig books very readable.  Not just building the beds, but what you can put after each crop so you can maximise output.

I do have a problem sourcing enough biomatter and I am still very wary of manure.  Everything on site has to be barrowed through a narrow gate.

I can get recycled compost but now avoid it early summer because I have had problems which I believe might be from lawn clippings treated with weedkillers and then put into the green bins.

[pumkinlover]

I am interested in how people are saying that they do not get weeds growing back, but maybe I should start another thread on that!

[Digeroo]

I would not like to say I got no weeds. They were manageable.  Nettles, dead nettle and ground ivy (nepeta)were the worst.  But new dandelions did not take hold and there were loads of seeds blowing about.  Goosegrass seems to be able to get going through four inches of mulching and seeds are resistant to composting.  No fat hen.  I think the potatoes helped deal with the couch.  I do not have bindweed or marestail on my plot.

But there are very few weeds left now after the squashes followed the potatoes just some ground ivy, and the patch did have quite a lot of couch.