miniscule shallots

[lottie lou]

If I plant the miserable miniscule shallots I ended up with last year, do you think they would grow larger or would they just produce loads of tinier shallots?

[lottie lou]

[cambourne7]

Sounds like you dont have anything to use by trying i would plant them between rows of carrots then at least they will keep the carrot fly away :)

[Vinlander]

If I plant the miserable miniscule shallots I ended up with last year, do you think they would grow larger or would they just produce loads of tinier shallots?

In my experience - the latter - but no harm in trying if you have the space.

Shallots do seem to love it when you mix up to 50% well-rotted compost heap into their bed.

Sow some shallot seeds in the same row - I'll be surprised if they don't end up 5x heavier than any individual bulb you get from the kind of pathetic 'splitter' you describe.

Cheers.

[lottie lou]

Hmm off to buy fresh sets tomorrow.

[daitheplant]

Strange as it sounds lottie, if you plant small shallot sets you get large bulbs Last year, I bet you planted large sets, and that is why you ended up with small bulbs.

[galina]

Strange as it sounds lottie, if you plant small shallot sets you get large bulbs Last year, I bet you planted large sets, and that is why you ended up with small bulbs.

I planted the same type of shallot in two places in the garden last year, one lot had tinies the other batch was normal sized.  I don't understand why. 

I have heard this thing about planting tiny shallots too, but wonder whether the result would be a single, large shallot or a cluster of shallots.

I usuall plant the largest individual shallots from the biggest clusters, but if this is wrong, I would much rather use the larger ones in cooking 

[lottie lou]

I don't mind having single large shallots so will give it a bash.  Thanks you daitheplant

[kt.]

I have tried shallots this past 3 years and dont seem to get anything larger than silverskin pickled onion size so am not bothering this year.

[steve1967]

I planted shallots which were given to me a few years ago. They were quite small and what I got from them were small also. This year I have bought some new. So hopefully they should produce some decent size. Reading the posts here it seems you will get small shallots from small bulbs.

Has anyone grown them from seed and do they give better results?

[daitheplant]

No steve, you get small shallots from planting LARGE sets and fewer, but larger shallots from small sets. A shallot set is made up of multiple embryo shallots, therefore, the bigger the bulb the more embryos, the smaller the bulb, the least number of embryos. Just remember, as with ALL members of the onion family correct feeding is vital.

[grawrc]

I've had my best results with seed. Yes you only get one but it's an acceptable size for cooking.

[Vinlander]

No steve, you get small shallots from planting LARGE sets and fewer, but larger shallots from small sets. A shallot set is made up of multiple embryo shallots, therefore, the bigger the bulb the more embryos, the smaller the bulb, the least number of embryos. Just remember, as with ALL members of the onion family correct feeding is vital.

I'm very interested to hear about actual experiences that differ from my own - especially when they are entirely opposite - but this from daitheplant sounds like pure theory.

Now I'm all in favour of thinking up theories that explain results - especially when the results are anti-intuitive - but it's a question of how many results in how many seasons.

My own experiences are questionable because I've only mollycoddled shallots when they were already starting to get smaller every year. People who always mollycoddle their shallots could easily get entirely different results - look at the current work on the human genetic legacy of famines that continue to induce smaller offspring generations later.

Taking all the data together, and making the reasonable assumption that nobody is mistaken about their own shallots - then the best advice might be to give up on shallots you might have starved in the past and start afresh - but mollycoddle them from the word GO.

Any comments?

Cheers.

[daitheplant]

Vinlander I feel quite insulted. I have grown shallots for over 30 years. I`ve even shown them so don`t say that I am theorising. Unlike you I KNOW what I am talking about.  The trouble with you so called scientists is you only see black and white, in the real world there is also grey.

[steve1967]

Hey Guys

Didnt want to start an argument here  I take on board what you are saying regards to correct feeding. Maybe you could expand on this as I am sure I am probably not feeding when I should be.

I will be interested to see how my shallots perform this year as they are new and of a nice size. Was just pointing out what I had experienced in the last couple of years with the ones I was given which were quite small.

[lottie lou]

Ooooh I didn't want to start a row.  I too would like more info on feeding as I usually just bung on a bit of that sulphate of ammonia stuff or BFB and then leave alone.  Have potted up some tiny shallots and off to buy a bag of sets to see the difference.

[Vinlander]

Vinlander I feel quite insulted. I have grown shallots for over 30 years. I`ve even shown them so don`t say that I am theorising. Unlike you I KNOW what I am talking about.  The trouble with you so called scientists is you only see black and white, in the real world there is also grey.

I didn't intend to insult you and I'm finding it difficult to see how you could take it so strongly.

In fact I said nothing about my background in this thread - so I wonder if you are really disagreeing with a different thread?

Anyway, everyone else who described the result of planting tiny shallots was merely recounting what happened to them.

As it happens you were the first person in the thread to disagree with the first opinions - which were that small shallots produce smaller ones.

That's all fine and good - your experience is valuable - we don't get anywhere with a problem if we allow some kind of dogma to over-rule experience.

This question has come up in earlier threads and there have been many different experiences - perhaps not quite as diametrically opposed but still a puzzle.

I'm always interested in what lies behind contradictory results - and I was just getting my thinking cap on, when I read your follow-up which tried to explain from biology why your experience made sense.

Does that imply that anyone with the opposite experience was - what??

I'm sorry, but I have to admit I am more interested in an approach which might produce an explanation of why several bunches of people who all know what they are talking about can produce completely different results!

I'm not saying it won't involve embryos - I'm just saying that whatever it is will have to explain why the results go both ways.

I hope we can all move forward on the basis that everyone's experience deserves consideration - and if the results are weird then we need to find a root cause - without just chucking out the inconvenient truth.

Cheers.

[laurieuk]

Having grown and shown shallots for around 50 years , I started as a garden boy in 1948, may I say the most importnat thing is the variety. When you show ware shallots you are looking for round very large shallots which you get with "Hative de Niort". They come round because most times you get 4 bulbs per plant so no centre one to give flat sides. For the next year you save large round bulbs , if you want to grow pickling size "which should go through a 1 inch ring" you start  large bulb in small pots and starve them out. I have 2 talks next week on growing veg and always start by saying agrdening is not a science we all do things our own way. Sorry I do not  talk metric.