advice to improve my soil please

[flowergirl]

If you read my previous thread "feel like giving it all up" you will know this year has been a nightmare..so....I have decided to go back to basics.

The plot I have was neglected for year. All that was growing was couch grass some kind of bind weed nettles and brambles.

I cleared half and covered other half.

My first crop was OK..nothing to shout about but I thought this years crop would be a lot better but it was worse ???

I had planned to sow some autumn sowing veggies but Have decided to not bother planting anything at all.  I want to get the soil right for next year.  I'll be covering the lot until the temperature falls and then I plan to rotivate the lot and cover with manure then rotivate again.

Can anyone give me any pointers for other things I can do to improve the soil? Also which manure is better horse or cow ?

Much appreciated FG  :-*

[flowergirl]

[saddad]

As much muck as you can get... either is good. Hope it's not contaminated...  :-X

[flowergirl]

yeah me too thats why i am tempted to go for horse manure.  The field where it is from is only used for keeping horses..not grown on.  I have heard all sorts of stories about undigested wheat seeds though???

[ceres]

yeah me too thats why i am tempted to go for horse manure.  The field where it is from is only used for keeping horses..not grown on.  I have heard all sorts of stories about undigested wheat seeds though???

That doesn't make any difference.  Horse manure can become contaminated in 2 ways.  Horses graze on pasture that has been sprayed with weedkiller to kill the broad-leaved weeds that are injurious to horses.  Or they are fed bought-in or home-produced hay or silage that was sprayed when growing.  Or possibly both.

[flowergirl]

 :-X :-[

never new that!

[daveyboi]

One thing I would recomend is to buy a soil testing kit and see where your ph level is at present.

It might pay you to sow a green manure this winter as well.

What type of soil do you have ?

[flowergirl]

crap soil  :-\ thats what it is!

Err its very very hard compact soil where its not been worked. Its not chalky or sandy.  I would say its probably clay if anything but not too heavy.  the soil when we first rotivated it was absolutly choka with roots of couch grass. Potatoes seem to have made the soil better.

[grannyjanny]

If you rotovate won't you just spread the dreaded couch grass roots?

[Robert_Brenchley]

If you can get autumn leaves or grass cuttings, they'll improve the soil no end if you keep on adding them.

[Digeroo]

What about recycled compost.  They sell it very cheaply or give it away in some areas.  What happens to the stuff from your green bins/food bins?

You do not need soil.  Part of my plot was 100% pure unsorted gravel.  So I incorporated loads of organic material (manure- only one small batch was contaminated) , added Blood Fish and Bone and it is now growing sweetcorn 8 feet high and courgettes/squashes have gone rampant.

All that rain last year and again this year washes all the nutrients away.  I think plants are hungry things they need lots of food.

[landimad]

I would ask the local council where they send their green stuff for recycling and then ask if you can buy it back.
I did and had three ton delivered to me for £35. bargin me thinks.

[MrBean]

Where abouts is your plot?

There are several reasons why things don't grow, and some (like weather related) you have no control over. People growing near you may have planted a week or two earlier or later. It makes a difference as does the particular packet of seed.

I planted runner beans really early, covered them with fleece and we are just about to finish picking a fairly good crop. The next door neighbour is a very experienced grower, beans went in a month later, and they're dismal.

I wouldn't rotovate. Its good you are covering the ground. Just go down a few inches and let worms do the deep stuff. They work most days and never send in an invoice. When you start working on it use one of these with more info here .  I've got no links with either, but I did buy the 4" hoe and the fork. They're the most useful tools I have, and I should have got them years ago.

[djbrenton]

If you can find a local micro-brewery, spent hops is the bees knees for soil conditioning, second only to leaf mould according to a study I saw a few years ago.

[grannyjanny]

Mr Bean, I agree, fantastic tool 5eu 50c from Portugal ;D ;D ;D.

[growmore]

If  the muck you get has been piled at all spread it straight on the garden and rotovate it in ...It's doing no good piled in a corner of your garden and leeching the goodness out ... Then plant some heat treated over wintering onion sets,spring cabbage and over intering caulies in it .Wait a month then set some garlic, Tescoe's will do but Netto's may be cheaper  :)
There's an owd Yorkie saying "If tha puts nowt in tha gets nowt out".
It's been a funny old year this year in the Don Valley I ain't known as much rain in a season .Some stuff  thrived in it, some stuff didn't like it at all..
Next year is bound to be better  ;) We hope..

[Squashfan]

Might be soil pH, flowergirl. My brother planted one year, got great results and then the next year was crap. His pH was out of whack. Basically, if it's too alkaline, add acid and vice versa.

We're still trying to figure out what works best - used some green manures last year and soil's doing ok there. Don't get discouraged, but you'll discover that the more you work the allotment, the less you know. We're on year 5 and still learning things.  :P

[flowergirl]

Tried the non rotivating approach on part of land - did not work.  Yes I know it will chop the couch grass root but where i rotivated the allotment the grass is no worse but the digging is easier.  What you need to know is that  when i first got the plot the ground I litterally couldn't get a fork out of the ground....all you could here was snapping and cracking...the roots are that compact.  Ive been growing through fleece ground cover stuff.

I plan to rotivate and then leave uncovered for frost to kill bugs n weed roots ( hopefully)

I do already compost so of course will use before planting but my plot is 125' x 20'...that's a lot of home made compost lol.

Might try local council though ty.

I know it takes time to get great soil...I suppose what I want is something that's quick and will make a dramatic improvement for next year.  As I fear that I may give allotment up if theres no improvement.

[flowergirl]

arghh how do you get pictures on here!!

[Robert_Brenchley]

I agree that you can't get a fork into turf. What I did when I frst took on my plot was to get a spade, sharpen the edge, and use that, as it cut straight through the roots. Then I piled the turf, forked over the ground again (there was so much couch I left masses behind) and composted the turf. I dug in loads of dead leaves, and spread the turf pile once it had rotted. It was a lot of work, but spread over a couple of years it wasn't too bad.

With hindsight, given the waterlogging, I should have used the loam from the turf piles to build raised beds. Anther good idea would have been to lay black plastic over half of it. this was ten years ago though, raised beds weren't well known, and I was new to gardening.

[Suzanne]

My first lottie I had to use a pick axe to break the soil up - it took me the first year to dig over, was a mix of clay and dumped subsoil. And it is only a very small plot.

I checked pH levels and these were very acidic in patches. So added spent mushroom compost to try and correct. The rest got a dressing of rotted sheep manure (care of a local farmer), and also grew buckwheat very densely on other beds.

Second year of owning I got a reasonable crop. I now make compost from all the garden trimmings - add chicken manure and dig over every year. 5 years on and the soil is becoming very workable and I am getting fairly good yields.

Please don't give up - it may be that the areas that have been covered for a year can now be rotavated, manured and then covered again with a waterpermeable but light excluding cover and plant through that. Also may be worth checking below the level of where the rotavator depth to see if the soil is compacted there as well - if so fork this to break up slightly.

Best of luck.