no free lunch its time to pay the bill

[jimtheworzel]

the  i want it all  and i want it NOW even if i cant pay  way of thinking has played a big part in the credit crunch   the good times have gone  its time to pay the bill for that  free lunch

[jimtheworzel]

[valmarg]

the  i want it all  and i want it NOW even if i cant pay  way of thinking has played a big part in the credit crunch   the good times have gone  its time to pay the bill for that  free lunch

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

When did you last hear anyone say 'I'm saving up to buy xyz, etc.'

The banks bear an enormous responsibility for their irresponsible lending policy.  Still, at least I'm a shareholder in the failed banks, and should expect to receive loadsamoney in dividends. ::) ::) ::)

valmarg

[Larkshall]

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

I remember this as a headline in Computer Active some years ago, to complete the headline "but free software, now that's different". The advert was for the Star Office suite from Sun Microsystems. They eventually developed it into Open Office and made it available for all operating systems.

Why do people still line the fat cats (Microsoft & Adobe) pockets by buying their overpriced software.

Completely free (open source) software:-
Ubuntu OS (supported by South African Billionaire, Mark Shuttleworth to the tune of $10,000,000).
Open Office suite (supported by Sun Microsystems)
The Gimp (photo manipulating software)
Mozilla Firefox (Browser)
Mozilla Thunderbird (email client)
Mozilla Filezilla (FTP client)
+ thousands of specialist programs.

There's even a free Ubuntu magazine:- http://fullcirclemagazine.org all brought to you by a world wide community of programmers who believe that software should be free of charge.

I have been running a computer group for 20 years, today is our twentieth anniversary.

[jimtheworzel]

whats the above got to do with borrowing money you cant re pay

[Paulines7]

The banks bear an enormous responsibility for their irresponsible lending policy.  Still, at least I'm a shareholder in the failed banks, and should expect to receive loadsamoney in dividends. ::) ::) ::)

valmarg

I too am a shareholder Valmarg but would rather forego dividends than have the banks go into liquidation and lose all my shares.  I would then have to wait months maybe years before being able to get money back from savings too.

I have never been that keen on Gordon Brown, I suppose because he lacks charisma, but I am very much behind him now and am pleased that we have him in control.  His financial experience is well respected by world leaders and if anyone can keep Britain afloat, we have the right man in power. 

Banks have a lot to answer for in the way they encourage people to take out large loans, tempting many people, some of whom may not necessarily understand the small print. 

The press have not helped the situation either so I hope they will lay off now and allow Britain and the rest of the world to recover from this crisis.

A free lunch as I see it now will be a home made soup made from home grown vegetables.    ;D

[OllieC]

I have a book called "The Birth of a Salesman" which explains that the birth of sales in the sense of really driving a business forwards, and subsequently so much of the luxury we enjoy today, became possible because of credit being available to most people. So although it's easy to knock, you'd be unlikely to be reading your computer screen without it... even if you personally saved before you bought.

Things will recover in some shape or form. There was no Fee Lunch, just a bit of carelessness. I'm not even convinced there was much more greed than most humans display, just the ugly face of capitalism, which is still better than the ugly face of the alternative (they both have pretty faces too, of course). Christ I'm tired of all this though.

[valmarg]

When OH and I wanted to buy our first home, costing £3,500 we wanted to borrow £3,000.  Having given all the details of our incomes, we were told, sorry, but we are only prepared to lend you £2,700.  Fortunately my mum and dad could make up the difference, and we managed to buy our first home.

I think the current problem is that banks have been chucking money about like a man with no arms.  125% mortgages were/are ludicrous, and anyone prepared to take such a mortgage on must have been hoping to win the Lottery jackpot.

valmarg

[Eristic]

whats the above got to do with borrowing money you cant re pay

It's not about borrowing money you can't repay, it's about not borrowing money just because you can.

[valmarg]

I have never been that keen on Gordon Brown, I suppose because he lacks charisma, but I am very much behind him now and am pleased that we have him in control.  His financial experience is well respected by world leaders and if anyone can keep Britain afloat, we have the right man in power.

[/quote]

I find the man completely repulsive.

With regard to handling the economy, I think Gordon Brown is sitting in his own mess.

valmarg

[Busby]

OllieC's book is no doubt enlightening proof for those of us fortunate enough to have benefitted from the world's (as we know it) blatant demand to have more and more. Unfortunately however, for most people on this planet both luxury and comfort have not yet been enjoyed in spite of businesses of all kinds making profits of billions of dollars, pounds, euros and the rest. There are countless examples, everywhere.

In fact it's the opposite, because those of us who live lives of luxury (however relative) do so at the cost of nations who are not in a position to fend for themselves. As we know the number of hungry, homeless, diseased and helpless people is increasing.

'Birth of a Salesman' won't help here but would probably be useful for lighting a fire in those dryed-out places where the trees have disappeared.

Credit is the way of paying through the nose to get something that hasn't yet been earned. It distorts markets, destroys moral, creates environmental chaos and leads a to host of other problems that make individuals, families, communities and countries into slaves.

Making excuses by blaming the banks or Brown won't wear with me either. Each of us has a choice for anything we do, what we do is our choice and the world has enough experience to know that budgets have to be balanced.

Look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves.

[Eristic]

Look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves.

BUT:

Penny wise, pound foolish is often nearer the mark. Look after the pounds first as the pennies are worthless.

[OllieC]

I prefer "Everything in moderation". There;s nothing wrong with a bit of credit in the right circumstances. Without it we wouldn't have most of the cool things in life.

And Busby, some nice ideas there, but it's a little bit idealised & simplistic. People simply won't go back to living in caves... and don't need to! And I suspect that you haven't read the book in question... it is quite interesting - it's not saying what's good, it's saying what is observed.

[ACE]

I was born with nothing and still have most of it left. ;D

It is true though! If you were never able to afford things and just got by with what you could. The good times are just starting. Petrol, down, food prices coming down, xmas pressies will be so cheap this year. the January sales will start in November. The rip-off merchants will be stuck with their goods.

We struggled to bring up the family, but bought my own house, we made do or went to car boot sales.  Always went for the value for money option, not the style one. I worked at 2 jobs and my wife done 3.

Now the kids have flown we are doing quite nicely, No more scrimping, but still careful. It don't scare me.

Credit crunch! Bring it on.

[betula]

Already Woolworth's are doing toys three for two,lower price free.

Good offer as branded goods.We bought igglepiggle,all singing and dancing :)
Postman Pat set and Thomas the Tank phone.

Good offer.

[grawrc]

I prefer "Everything in moderation".

Aha!! The renaissance view of life!! It has always been my view too. Rabelais put it: "La médiocrité est en tous cas louable". His spelling was a bit different but I couldn't be bothered trawling through the book to find the exact quote. Oh and by médiocrité he actually meant moderation. Now there's a word that shows how views have changed!! In those days mediocrity was to strive for!

Actually the French are quite good at this. Voltaire's premiss was "Il faut cultiver son jardin" - nothing to disagree with there for all us gardeners and absolutely nothing about driving a 4 by 4 BMW gasguzzler, living beyond your means or keeping up with the Joneses.

[ACE]

driving a 4 by 4 BMW gasguzzler,

You was doing alright, then you have to jump on the  4x4 owners. Why?  How about those silly Nissan micra tw@ts who will not drive at more than 25mph. They hold up everything and cause all sorts of greenhouse gasses be wasted while goods wait to be delivered, workers  loose money daudling along the road.  Accidents when you try to overtake.

Lets see some facts about the harmful effects of 4x4s. If you can find any. Those printed in the Mail don't count.

[grawrc]

Couldn't agree more, Ace. It was by way of being an example of what, for many folk, is a lack of moderation, e.g. all the mums I see every day doing the 10 minute school run in a vehicle with a 3.5 litre engine. But like you I could think of plenty more instances. In car terms one of the things that bugs me most is the car or lorry or bus in front of me in the queue with black smoke billowing out of the exhaust. Sets off me asthma!!

Anyway the point wasn't in this instance that they are harmful to the environment but they generally cost rather a lot and many people who buy them really don't need and sometimes can't afford such a big, flashy, expensive car. I was thinking more about consumerism and fashion statements 'n' that. Grovel finished! ;) :P

[betula]

A line from my husbands collected ravings

"La vie mediocre est, tous la vie,  une existence completement banale.."

[telboy]

grawrc,
I like your appreciation of Rabelais!

[jjt]

    Me too. I especially remember the bit about using a cat to wipe your backside with. Sorry to lower the tone but it stuck in my mind. He didn't recommend it by the way, bit too scratchy. (Birth of a salesman might be better, compostable afterwards too).
       I agree with Busby. Obviously I like cheaper fuel, food etc but if I think about it I know full well I only get this at a cost to someone else. And not just business fat cats. Idealism and simplicity are not bad traits to have.
       Western civilisation is not sustainable long term for a large number of reasons. People laugh when you say such things but the signs are there and the financial panic is one of them.