What's a vegetarian?

[Georgie]

I am not a vegetarian but I'm curious to know why you want your daughter to eat meat until she has stopped growing (which I think is about 18 or maybe in even 21 in girls?)  It is perfectly possibly to have a healthy and balanced diet as a vegetarian.

You may have manged to hoodwink her with an inaccurate answer for now but believe me she will find you out.  And she will certainly make up her own mind long before she's 18/21 whether or not she cares to eat meat. 

For the record my daughter decided to become a vegetarian when she was about nine.  I respected her wishes and we bought cook books and shared the dishes.  As it happened it turned out to be a fad and she went back to eating meat after about three months. But I still think I was right to to allow her to experiment and make up her own mind.

G x

[Georgie]

[redimp]

As a vegetarian, I have never dictated to my kids.  From weaning, they have had a choice and they drift in and out of being veggie but most of the time eat meat.  I would have no problem bringing them up veggie though if that is what they choose.

[OllieC]

The age thing is easy to answer - it's easier to provide a balanced diet if she eats what we eat. Our diet with the meat removed would not be appropriate for a child to grow on.

I became a veggie at the age of 17, and didn't eat meat for 4 years. I started again when I decided that I was entirely comfortable with eating ethically produced meat.

Many people are veggie because they don't like the idea of killing animals. But they still eat dairy products which is worse (live veal exports being a byproduct of the dairy trade, for example)... I do have a problem with the lecturing veggie who feels themselves to be morally superior to me, and I have known some who are ignorant of the full facts. I genuinely believe that my personal view on the morality of eating meat is more consistant than most veggies - and probably less than most vegans.

Also, I don't really think what I told my daughter was inaccurate - just incomplete... It's better than the lie I was told about ice cream vans only playing music when they'd ran out of ice cream!

[Busby]

Ethically produced meat ? never heard that one before about meat. Or are these animals who don't get killed in order to be eaten?

[pippy]

I'd just like to say I did a posting on here a while ago about eating less meat and was really impressed with the way everyone respected each others views!  The complexities of farming and eating have been so removed from us in our world that these discussions strike me as the most vital thing about taking our society forward into a more "real food" approach, whether veggie or not.

Personally I think there are huge factors at play.  Genetics for a start - some people seem to be able to sustain a veggie diet better than others.  Your environment must also be linked with this - after all there are huge tracts of people in India who have lived a vegetarian diet for centuries.  Transpose them here and they get problems (lack of sunlight - vitamin D deficiency for a start).

The chemical laiden, factory farmed stuff the supermarkets sell is very far removed from real food and more and more the gaff is being blown on this.  We are clearly poisoning outselves as the Roman Empire did in its corruptive phases.

Also there seems to be the symbiosis with vegetable and meat farming - you must realise that for a cow to produce milk year in year out it must also be producing a calf.  Also the manure we need for out veg....

Like Ollie, I encourage my kids to eat meat, but I also try to explain to them that we look at where it has come from and have it was farmed.  There is far too much to even try to explain to a 3 year old!  Well done Ollie!

[dtw]

There are two types of vegetarian, those who believe in it, and those who love fluffy animals.
The fluffy animal ones always grow out of it, both my sisters and neices have grown out of it.

I once had a friend who claimed to be a vegetarian, but she said it was ok to eat chicken and fish, as they don't count. (down to them not being fluffy I suppose) ::)

[Hyacinth]

Well written Pippy and well done Ollie 8)

[Squash63]

My husband and I are both vegetarian.  This is very easy in England, but when we go to Sicily where he was born, it is a big problem.  For a start all his relatives look on him as being slightly insane and do their best to convert him back to 'real' food.  Then, if we are out somewhere and want a quick bite to eat it is almost impossible to find meat-free snacks.  We asked a shopkeeper if there was any meat in the pizza and he said "No, no meat, just ham!"
My son has been vegetarian since he was three years old, his partner is vegetarian and their daughter aged two has never had meat.  They eat a very healthy well-balanced diet.  I don't know what they will do if their daughter ever asks for meat, I'll have to ask him.

[pippy]

Thanks Mrs B.    I forgot to mention the ethical and evironmental factors were now also supposed to look at!  Is it any wonder we are all confused??  

Basically Beef has the highest carbon footprint of all and surprisingly milk, cheese, butter etc are almost as high.  Lamb is confusing as British lamb in Autumn is quite low but I read that Spring lamb is much higher as it is reared in barns during the winter on stored fodder.  Apparently New Zealand lamb, shipped as it is is accually a lower C.F. at this time of year! (Doesn't stop me supporting British farmers tho).  Pork is between lamb and beef and chicken ( I think?) was a bit lower than lamb.  

One great thing about British autumn lamb is it is virtually always free range (back to farming methods).  Pork is rearely free range and there are some nasty hormonal practices - I have heard a full grow pig is produced hormonally in less than half the time it takes to mature naturally.  Quite worrying.  There has been loads of press on chicken rearing so I won't mention that.

Lets all take our own choices !

[Georgie]

The age thing is easy to answer - it's easier to provide a balanced diet if she eats what we eat. Our diet with the meat removed would not be appropriate for a child to grow on.

Thanks for your explanation, Ollie.  I can see that it's more convenient in a family if everyone eats the same food (more or less) and I'm a firm believer in families sitting down together for their meals where this is practicable.  My question was out of genuine interest but I still maintain that you will be very lucky parents indeed if you think you will be able to impose your will in this matter on your daughter until she is a young adult.

G x

PS Why do ice cream vans ring their bells then?   ;)

[OllieC]

Hi Georgie,

At the tender age of 3, she is already astonishingly able to make her views entirely clear!! Asbean, Eristic, Raised bed Ted & Pauline7 can all confirm that she's a delightful yet astonishingly spirited child. Well, I hope they would!!! Perhaps they'd just cut to "spirited". This is my payback for being somewhat spirited myself as a child!

To put it in context, when Annabelle asks a question, she's already trying to outmanoeuvre you, 3 steps ahead...

I dunno about Ice Cream Vans... I think the noise they now make is a warning of imminent overpriced poor quality sugary things.

[grawrc]

2 of my 3 kids became vegetarian round about puberty. Neither is now.

I have more problems with the dairy stuff than the meat, especially if the meat is hill reared lamb. Having found pregnancy a pain in the **** I am very unhappy with cows being kept lactating without the presence of their calf. Despite this I probably eat more butter, cheese, cream etc than I do meat.

I could not eat margarine and when cream and cheese are the way to go i can't think what to replace them with?

Ollie I have always believed in being straight up with children. If they decide to be different it costs a bit more and gives you more hassle, however when they reach the age where they are hormonally challenged (teenage) they are far more likely to be on your side. And that's when you need them to be.

Annabelle is currently enjoying what you all eat and will probably accept that her vegetarian friend is out of order because she does something different.

Better imho to be up front with her - but don't give her all the gruesome details (I know you wouldn't anyway) just that some people eat animals and some only eat vegetables??

[Georgie]

Hi Georgie,

At the tender age of 3, she is already astonishingly able to make her views entirely clear!! Asbean, Eristic, Raised bed Ted & Pauline7 can all confirm that she's a delightful yet astonishingly spirited child. Well, I hope they would!!! Perhaps they'd just cut to "spirited". This is my payback for being somewhat spirited myself as a child!

To put it in context, when Annabelle asks a question, she's already trying to outmanoeuvre you, 3 steps ahead...

I dunno about Ice Cream Vans... I think the noise they now make is a warning of imminent overpriced poor quality sugary things.

ROFL, sounds like you've got your work cut out then.   ;D

Sorry to go a bit off topic but my daughter was (well is) spirited too and I thought I would share this little story.  I distinctly remember when she was about three and a half and had been nagging me for sometime for a brother or sister.  (I was a single parent at the time and I'd told her that this was not possible because Daddy and Mummy no longer lived together and it took a man and a woman to make a baby.)  Anyway, we were in the local high street when she pulled my arm and said, sotto voice:  'Mummy, you know you said it takes a man and a woman to make a baby.  Well, that man over there looks nice, couldn't he give you a baby?'  I think there were a number of folks dining out on that that evening.   ;D

G x

[asbean]

Hi Georgie,

At the tender age of 3, she is already astonishingly able to make her views entirely clear!! Asbean, Eristic, Raised bed Ted & Pauline7 can all confirm that she's a delightful yet astonishingly spirited child. Well, I hope they would!!! Perhaps they'd just cut to "spirited". This is my payback for being somewhat spirited myself as a child!

To put it in context, when Annabelle asks a question, she's already trying to outmanoeuvre you, 3 steps ahead...

I dunno about Ice Cream Vans... I think the noise they now make is a warning of imminent overpriced poor quality sugary things.

Yep, I can definitely confirm that.  I am not comfortable around children (everyone said it would be different when I had my own, but it wasn't) and I managed to go a whole day without cringing once.  She's a little sweetie-pie, bright as a button.  Mind you, good parenting has a lot to do with that. I've got a great niece of 14 months, and if she's half as bright as Annabelle in a couple of years' time, she'll be doing well.  :) :) :) :) :)

[Paulines7]

Yep, I can definitely confirm that.  I am not comfortable around children (everyone said it would be different when I had my own, but it wasn't) and I managed to go a whole day without cringing once.  She's a little sweetie-pie, bright as a button.  Mind you, good parenting has a lot to do with that. I've got a great niece of 14 months, and if she's half as bright as Annabelle in a couple of years' time, she'll be doing well.  :) :) :) :) :)

I second that Asbean.  Annabelle is a delightful child and full credit to her parents.