Rotation (again, sorry!) and things being planted now

[kitten]

Hi all

I've just done a search and can't seem to find the info i'm after so hope you don't mind me asking yet another rotation question.  ::)

We have four beds, potatoes, onions & roots, legumes & brassicas.  This year has worked lovely, and feels very organised, lol, but now i'm a bit confused!

If we put in some overwintering onions, i'm assuming they go into my next year's onion bed, rather than the one i've just lifted this years onions out of?  And, if that's the case, should i be doing the same with everything that's planted/sown now - ie broad beans - in this years legume bed, or where i plan them for next year?  And what happens if there's still things in there (like brassicas) that won't come out until next spring??

I'm not being obsessive compulsive about it (well, maybe just a little...) but just want to be clear on what's best practice  ::)

[kitten]

[Deb P]

Confusing isn't it! I've spent many a happy hour figuring this one out this year as it's all new to me!

I suppose it depends on the order of your rotation. I am planting my overwintering onions, shallots and garlic soon in the 'next year' allium beds that have had early potatoes followed by courgettes in this year. They will stay there and be harvested June/July ish, and will be followed by autumn flowers and late salads or squash again. My brassicas like PSB are staying where I planted them this year overwinter, finishing April/May time, then will be replaced with 'others', such as outdoor toms, sweetcorn, salad, pumpkins, fennel etc. Newly sown brassicas like broad beans go in the existing brassica beds to overwinter.

I found the easiest way to work it out was to list what I wanted to grow, and the plant and harvest months. This showed me how I could work out what follows what a bit easier. So my 5 rotation groups (which fits my plot areas) work out as....

Potatoes, Others, Legumes, Brassicas and Roots (together as I don't grow many roots!), Alliums.

Hope this helps and doesn't confuse even more!!!! ;D

[kitten]

Hi Deb, thanks, that does help!

We've gone for it, and put some spring onions in next year's alliums & roots bed (which is this year's brassicas bed) and will shortly sow some autumn onions & garlic.  The brassicas currently in there over winter will come out by spring ish i'm guessing, and will then make way for our spring sown onions.

Where i'm confused is, if we'd filled up the brassicas bed this year (i.e. it would be full now) then where's the room for our autumn planted alliums???  :-\

This year's onions bed (which is currently clear) will be where our potatoes go next year, so in the meantime we've just sown some perp spinach, corn salad and winter salad leaves (and will successional sow & cloche for a few more weeks).

Good idea to do a list of what's sowing & harvesting when, think i'll try to make up a calendar of sorts & it might make things a bit clearer!

Thanks for your advice x

[Deb P]

Where i'm confused is, if we'd filled up the brassicas bed this year (i.e. it would be full now) then where's the room for our autumn planted alliums???  :-\

I'm confused now, in your original post you have potatoes following your brassicas not alliums......your brassicas would follow where you planted your legumes this year, chop the tops off and leave the beany roots in the ground to help your brassicas next year.. You can add manure to your planned potato and legume beds and not the others, next year they get the manure instead. That rotation would work well I think... ;D

[redimp]

Hi Deb, thanks, that does help!

We've gone for it, and put some spring onions in next year's alliums & roots bed (which is this year's brassicas bed) and will shortly sow some autumn onions & garlic.  The brassicas currently in there over winter will come out by spring ish i'm guessing, and will then make way for our spring sown onions.

Where i'm confused is, if we'd filled up the brassicas bed this year (i.e. it would be full now) then where's the room for our autumn planted alliums???  :-\

This year's onions bed (which is currently clear) will be where our potatoes go next year, so in the meantime we've just sown some perp spinach, corn salad and winter salad leaves (and will successional sow & cloche for a few more weeks).

Good idea to do a list of what's sowing & harvesting when, think i'll try to make up a calendar of sorts & it might make things a bit clearer!

Thanks for your advice x

You seem to have a very similar roatation to me - Legumes>Brassicas>Alliums/Roots>Potatoes.  My overwintering onions go where my summer brassicas were and they will be just about finished in a week or so's time.  Normally, overwintering brassicas (apart from sprouts and kale) will go in next year's brassica bed and overwintering broad beans will go in next year's legume bed.  I operate on a policy of if it will still be in the ground March/April next  year, then it has to be put in next year's beds.  Have fiddled a bit this year cos seem to have loads and loads of overwintering brassicas and the weather/slugs/snails meant I was short of brassicas during spring/summer, so I am using up spare ground.  Next year's (spring sown) onions will go where the sprouts/kale etc were this year.

BTW - have read that brassica roots left in the ground have positive effect against allium whiterot so contrary to advice re club root, I am going to leave the roots in where alliums will be going.

[kitten]

Deb - having read what you wrote, i reckon my rotation is going the other way around to how you've understood it - i.e. bed A - this year potatoes, next year legumes, then brassicas, then onions, then back to potatoes.  Sorry for the confusion, it's so difficult to explain!  Apparently this rotation system means that only 1/4 of the ground needs manuring each season  :-\

Red - yep, same rotation as yours.  Thanks for your advice, that's v helpful.  Unfortunately we've just put some overwintering brassicas in what was this year's brassica bed, so will have to whip them out quick when we need to put the spring sown onions in next year lol  :D

[cambourne7]

Cant sleep so though i would have a wander around the forum, this is what i have planned for 2008 compared to 2007.

   2007   2008
1   potatoes   Umberler
2   Umberler   Brassicas
3   alium   Umberler
4   potatoes   Umberler
5   potatoes   Umberler
6   Brassicas   Legumes
7   alium   Potatoes
8   Brassicas   Legumes
9      Tomatoes
10      Brassicas
11      Umberler
12      Alium
13      Alium
14      Alium
15      Brassicas
a      Gords
b   Umberler   Gords
c   herbs   herbs
d   Umberler   salads

This excludes most of my fruit beds some of which have my over wintering onions, the alium beds above have my spring planted onions going in.

This is first draft so once i work out all the details it might change a little. I have another bed to put in which will be for potatoes thats why i dont have a lot of potatoes above.

Umberlers are Carrot, parsnip, parsley, celery, Florence fennel i think you can guess the rest.

Cambourne7