Compost / Manure A couple of questions?

[Tiercel]

Hi,
I have access to an unlimited amount of horse manure / compost. I have used it this year for the first time. But there may be a problem as it contains a lot of wood shavings. Even though the compost I am taking is over 5 years old  you can still see the shavings in some of it.
My question is will the shavings take the Nitrogen out of the soil? I have had conflicting advice on this, some say it will, some say no. Others say yes initially but it will replace the taken nitrogen slowly into the soil and the advantage it gives as a soil improver outweighs the depleted nitrogen.
Any thoughts please?

[Tiercel]

[Fork]

The wood shavings will definately take the nitrogen out of the soil especially if your horse manure is quite fresh.

Horse manure mixed with straw is your best option.

Unless of course,you can get well rotted manure fromm the cow sheds.In my own humble opinion,"cow muck" is much better.

[manicscousers]

we use whatever we can get, not much choice around here.. ;D
we scatter chicken pellets (nitrogen) when we plant so, by the time that's used up, the hm takes over  :)

[oubykh]

i've used similar before and vastly improved my soil. whether or not it had an effect on the nitrogen i dont know but the potatoes seemed to like it!
Better than nothing i would say.

[Eristic]

I've said it before and I'll say it again now. "How can a woodchip saturated in nitrogen deplete the nitrogen in the soil"? I very much doubt that anyone in this forum uses more horse manure than me and while in an ideal situation it is better to let it compost for a couple of months before using, I have to take it when I have the time and if I need it now I will use it straight from the stable.

I deploy manure at the rate of about 1 cu metre per 12-15 sq metre then frequently top dress as well if available and at that rate it will probably take me four years to get round the entire plot. Just in time to start again.

Does fresh horse manure burn crops? No! If you don't believe me put the books away and try it. It will still make your carrots and other roots go wrong though.

[mikey]

Eristic,

with you 100% ..... there is a lot of misleading information in Books, Magazines and Forums, as you say .......

Does fresh horse manure burn crops? No! If you don't believe me put the books away and try it.

this is the best advice I have seen for a long time on the seemingly endless Pooh - Nitrogen - Pooh discussions.

[Baccy Man]

I have access to an unlimited amount of horse manure / compost. I have used it this year for the first time. But there may be a problem as it contains a lot of wood shavings. Even though the compost I am taking is over 5 years old  you can still see the shavings in some of it.

If it really is 5 years old there should not be any shavings left in it. Even manure which is stockpiled rather than composted contains more than enough nitrogen to break down the shavings in a couple of years.
Saying that I would use it anyway however old it is I dug in about 3 tons of stockpiled cow manure full of straw into a 14'x12' area in early April because I needed to clear some room for 15 tons of chicken manure that I had been offered I dug the bed over again last week ready for planting & found millions of worms but very few traces of the manure/sraw it had virtually all been broken down in just a few weeks. I have always gone heavy on the manure adding it by the ton along with compost & leafmould in similar quantities everything grows well there are plenty of worms about which have attracted loads of frogs, toads, newts, & slow worms all of which eat slugs as well as worms & it has been years since I have had to try digging over my original very stony wet clay soil I started with.
I suggest you get as much manure as you can dig it in where you have beds & use it as a thick mulch on the areas you are not currently using the worms will dig it in for you on those bits improving the soil & in turn making it easier when you do get round to digging it over. In a couple of years you will have a plot with great soil very easy to dig & very fertile.

[Fork]

We will have to agree to dissagree then.

Unless the manure with shavings is well rotted down the shavings deplete the nitrogen.

This information comes from many sources including fellow plot holders who have been growing their own for 30 years plus.

Although I prefare cow "muck" I have an area on my plot where my potatoes are growing that was covered in a good layer of horse "muck" with lots of straw.My potatoes lok great.

[saddad]

Any muck is better than no muck! If the nitrogen thing bothers you give it a watering with urea!
;D

[davyw1]

You can always buy your self some Garotta which will break down your compost in no time.

[Robert_Brenchley]

The manure with shavings ahould contain enough nitrogen to rot it all down, but if you dig it in while still in the fresh state, the nitrogen will be leached out, leaving a deficiency. Let it rot first, and this won't happen.

[Tiercel]

Thank you all for your replies.
I will carry on using this as the general consensus is that it is alright to use it. I will be making quite a few trips to the stables on a manure run this winter.
I have waited till now to reply as It was my turn to take the daughter up the stables this morning. So I thought i could get a pic of the muck heap.  The "muck" I have been taking is from the bottom of this pile,  there are no worms in this stuff as the worms are higher up in the heap.



I have drawn lines across the heap, each line gives approx a years worth of growth to the heap.

This is the heap in it's entirety. All free to anyone who wants it

[Trevor_D]

Your heap looks rather likes ours. We all use hundreds of barrowloads every year - dug in or used as a mulch - and it does wonders for the soil and not one of us has noticed any problems (apart from the weeds it contains when we mulch with it). Like you, we take from the bottom or middle of the pile, although we often take the strawy stuff from nearer the top either as a mulch or to add to our compost heaps. As there must be at least 40 or 50 of us using it regularly, someone would have spotted something by now if gave problems.

[allaboutliverpool]

Oxygen is needed for decomposition and regular turning is needed for complete breakdown. While turning every 3 weeks or so you can mix any dryish areas with damp and water if necessary. Peat that is thousands of years old has woody bits and even leaves as it was laid down in anaerobic conditions in shallow water.

Turn and water your shavings and it will be perfect in a few months.

If you are still worried about nitrogen, Sulphate of Ammonia is a cheap additive.

http://www.allaboutliverpool.com/allaboutallotments1_homepage

[cornykev]

Like Baccyman I can't see how you can still have shavings after 5 years, I know it needs turning but it should have rotted away.  ;D ;D ;D