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Compost! again

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Tee Gee:
Just making a general comment that I would like your opinions on!

The query is: Are you finding that present day compost gets VERY wet?

I have noticed that the MP compost I have been buying lately;  Namely Clover and/or Humax remains very, very wet to the point if left in that way, it affects the health of any plants planted in it.

I am finding that the plants appear to droop as if lacking moisture, yet I know I water them regularly but not too regularly as I am well aware that more plants die because of over watering, rather than under watering, so to that end I am very careful with my "Watering Regime"

Last year I lost lots of plants that were being grown in containers i.e. in potting compost, whereas similar plants grown out in the garden soil flourished.

The same thing happened to family and friends I make up potted plants for.

On seeing this I started doing a bit of investigation as to what was causing this problem i.e. was I doing something wrong or was it the materials I was using was the problem.

Last year I used Clover MP and I noticed something rather strange written on each bag and that was;

"Not Suitable for Commercial Use"

Why I asked myself and my thoughts went to "Double Standard Sales Practices"

I contacted Clover and explained about the wetness of the compost, and they replied; 'You must have put the water there' an understatement if ever there was one!

I mentioned the comment "Not Suitable for Commercial Use" on the packaging, and they replied; The recipe for Commercial use relative to'General Use' is different

On challenging this they would not comment as to why this is.

I then commented on the other information on the bag where it mentions that the product contains an added 'Wetting Agent' and was it this that is causing the wetness in the compost?

Again they would not give an explanation!

Now my knowledge of 'Wetting Agents' was due to complaints in the past where gardeners complained "Peat Based" composts were difficult to re-wet if they ever dried out.

So the producers started adding a wetting agent to alleviate this problem which it largely did!

So my next query was; Now that we are using Reduced Peat or Peat free composts was there any need for a wetting agent?

Again no comment!

This year I am mixing all of my compost myself based on the John Innes recipe which is;

7 parts sterilised loam
3 parts peat
2 parts sharp sand

Then add:
0.6gms per litre ground limestone (0.6 kg per cubic metre)
3gms per litre John Innes Base fertiliser (3kg per cubic metre)

I have altered this mix slightly see here;

I first mix up largish quantities of what I call my 'Base Mix' and I check the PH and adjust it with lime as required.

6 parts saved compost from previous year
3 parts Westlands MP https://www.thepotplace.co.uk/product/westland-the-gardners-multi-purpose-compost/
I was put on to this by my local garden centre manager who advised me that it had a high Peat content(60% he thought) so I bought a couple of bags of this and I like it!
In terms of the emphasis of reducing Peat usage, I could say that this could be described as; 'Reduced Peat JI multi-purpose compost.
2 Parts Perlite in place of sand.

In terms of adding fertiliser I add John Innes Base fertiliser in quantities specified to give me Ji1,Ji2,Ji3.

What I can say about my finished product is that is 'consistent' but it is still holding onto excess moisture!

What I am finding I have to do when watering is insert my hydrometer probe into the pot/s to determine if they need watering!

I am now getting more expert at this in so far as any plants that are drooping or looking in poor health does NOT need watering!

Due to this warm spell the surface of the compost is snuff dry yet about 3inches(7 cm) down it is registering midway between MOIST and WET on the poorly plants the needle swing rapidly off the scale.

So as you see I have not resolved the moisture content of my compost as such, however in the back of my mind I am thinking there could still be residual 'wetting agent' in my old & new compost content.

This is where I want you guys to come in to help me to produce a heath-robinson type survey on;

1) Do you find that your compost is saturated/moist/dryish than it was in previous years?
2) Does it mention on the packaging;  peat free/reduced peat?
3) Does it mention on the packaging; any special characteristics e.g. added wetting agent, added something else?
3) Optional;Compost brand

Sorry for rabbiting on a bit about compost again but as mentioned in another recent thread that Peat will be banned all together in a few years time, and I think by finding out what is really happening now, will perhaps make us better informed to respond to the eventual 'Peat Replacement'

I look forward to your responses...Tg

Obelixx:
Compost composition is a lottery here as there seems to be no John Innes or Levington standard.

I only ever buy MPC when it's on a BOGOF offer and then only use it as a soil conditioner on beds I'm about to plant up.

I buy what is supposed to be compost for seeds and cuttings but there is no indication as to content.  It seems to be recycled/composted vegetable matter and isn't sterilised so I get odd seedlings as well as the ones I've sown.   I use another compost, supposedly good for pelargoniums and flowering plants for potting on.   It seems to have a bit of loam in it but it also not been sterilised.    I have just pulled up yet another clump of red shank/persicaria weed that came as a passenger in a batch 2 years ago.  last year it was that horrid low growing yellow leaved clover.

I now buy the seed compost and a soil conditioner and have been mixing those up for my potting on mixture.  So far so good but an earlier experiment this year, mixing "terre végétale" (top soil it seems) with the seed compost for texture has proved too heavy and soil like for my tender fuchsias in pots and they're going to need re-potting.

I used to see bags of 100% peat but none so far this year and I wouldn't buy it anyway.    Our own garden compost is wonderful stuff for improving soil but is also full of weed seeds and we have so many beds needing it that we'll never have enough to use in making our own sowing and potting compost.  Luckily the local store has regular BOGOFs.

gray1720:
I've certainly noted thsi year that the Humax peat-free I had early in the season stayed very wet, and things didn't like it. I usually mix a bit of sand and gravel in to make a seed compost, but this year things really didn't like it. It also had big pieces of organic matter in it that looked like shredded bark.

The nursery I bought it from has now stopped supplying it in favour of Silvagrow, which seems to behave much better.

Beersmith:
Some good detective work there TG.

My most recent purchase was Dobbies multi-purpose, reduced peat.

Claims 40% peat.  (Have I mentioned my Dutch ancestry).

Claims added John Innes.  (Not sure what that means.)

No mention of wetting agents.

Warns, not suitable for fine seeds.

No mention of suitability for commercial use.

My overall assessment, not great but I've had much worse.

In my experience if compost gets too dry peat based compost re-wets easier than multi-purpose, although soaking from the bottom may be needed. On wetness and moisture retention I'm unsure. I think the cold conditions may have needed me to be less generous with my watering this season.

Paulh:
This year I have used:

1. Westland Jack's Magic (bought last year)

"A traditionally blended, all-purpose growing medium, rich in Peat, enriched with seaweed and organic fertiliser to continue feeding plants for up to 5 weeks after planting".

2. Bathgate Champion's Blend. This doesn't actually say what growing medium it contains, so I assume it's peat. It has additions including a wetting agent and:

"Champions Blend All Purpose Compost is a premium grade compost to be enriched with REMIN volcanic rock dust. It also contains Envii Foundation which is a naturally occurring blend of bacteria and fungi and Oceans Bounty Natural Seaweed Extract."

It advises to keep the compost moist but not saturated and to add feed after six weeks.

3. Bathgate Multipurpose

"100% Irish Peat
0 - 12 mm Graded
RHP Certified
Includes Wetting Agents
Professional Grade 14-16-18 Base Fertiliser
Plus Trace Elements
Magnesium Lime
A light weight, premium quality multipurpose compost, suitable for a wide range of pot and container growing applications. Not made from recycled waste this compost won't stain your hands and is completely weed free."

I would rather avoid peat and used to buy coir-based composts but I've not found any non-peat one that is a quality product.

All looked and felt good, but the multi-purpose one less so. It was less well graded but did not have too many larger bits in it to be a nuisance.

What I found with all of them is that the compost either dries out quickly or, if you overwater, it goes claggy, does not dry out and algae grows on the surface. It is a battle to keep it OK.

With some seeds, they germinate and sit there do nothing as if lacking nutrients. This was mainly in the multi-purpose but also in the other two.

Annoyingly, you can have two pots side by side with the same seeds sown and same compost used and the performance is quite different.

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