Topic: Will GM Crops Actually Save Allotments?

[g-uk]

Allotment growing is getting ever more expensive, while pests and diseases are becoming ever more abundant, due to a lack of available chemical control coupled with poor growing practices.

I can buy the most expensive organic potatoes for less than I can grow them. The price of bordeaux mix alone makes it more expensive. Blight free potatoes would mean no fungicide and therefore possibly cheap potatoes.

If alloment growing becomes twice the price of the best organic vegetables in shops, most people will see it as a waste of money, and abandon their plots. Some of course will continue growing for the sheer pleasure of it.

With 100% blight proof potatoes on the way, and the same protection to follow for other crops. Could this be science allowing allotments to be again financially worthwhile to gardeners?

Naturally I would feel the instinct to oppose GM due to worries of impact on the eco-system. However it is virtually impossible for people to grow main-crop potatoes, tomatoes, carrots and onions on our site now due to pests and a lack of available chemical control. Add this to the fact that the vegetables we grow are not natural anyway. Centuries of artificial breeding have created them. We have already thrown the eco-system into chaos. The carrot as we know it would not evolve 'naturally', and has not done so. Even the fruit we grow is generally one plant spliced with another plants roots. We have also imported 'alien' species of animals and plants that have rampaged through the environment. The natural balance is powerful and always seems to right itself. Despite most of our land area being put to unnatural use, including buildings, transport networks farms and mining, nature finds a way to work around us.

I'm not saying we as a species can abuse the world to a limitless extent. Just that perhaps our fear of a very slightly modified potato is unbalanced, when we are burning trillions of gallons of oil and knocking up nuclear power stations everywhere. Fear these, not the potato.

In any case the world's population is still exploding and the planet is not getting any bigger. GM is going to be forced on us to stop mass starvation.

Besides all of this, I would rather eat GM potatoes and tomatoes that the 'organic' version, coated in 'organic' (but toxic) bordeaux mixture fungicide.

[Chrispy]

Are you a Buddhist? I think you will need a few reincarnations before you see GM crops grown on allotments.

I would be happy to grow the new GM potato, providing it tasted good, but apparently nobody is allowed to taste it yet.

Unfortunately, as some of the previous GM crops have been used solely to improve the bottom line, and have made the environment worse not better, the anti-GM brigade have enough ammo to make sure that this spud will probably never even be in our supermarkets, let alone in our allotments.

[g-uk]

GM crops in the UK are a certainty. In order to meet demand with the ever increasing population we have no choice but to grow GM eventually. It's inevitable.

There is a lot more against nuclear power and that being rapidly expanded.

It is not a matter of if but when. The when is now with relation to GM seed generally and soon with relation to GM potatoes.

These potatoes are already being grown in the UK in more that one location for testing purposes.

GM denial is useless. GM crops are widespread in the USA, and UK amateur growers are no doubt already importing GM seeds both deliberately by purchasing packets, and also inadvertently in products or in the soil on their shoes.

[Floyds]

I thought we had to fear the burning of fossil fuels rather than the increase in nuclear power stations?

If only we could 'knock up' a nuclear power station or two in the next few years.

GM potatoes will not catch on if they taste rubbish and the jury is out on that one.

The Americans will be the guinea pigs before us on the taste test so if they reject them you can be sure we will as well.

[Chrispy]

You have an interesting point of view there g-uk, I'll just say I disagree and leave it at that.

[winecap]

I think there would certainly be increased demand for allotments so people can grow their own GM-free crops. On the whole, the GM debate is badly informed, but can you be informed about something that is unknown?
As a former molecular biologist, my view is that most GM crops would probably be safe. It seems very unlikely though that there would be no unforeseen effects. Take those strawberries which were modified to grow at a lower temperature. It was unforeseen that they would turn blue, but the effect was immediately obvious. There will be other unforeseen effects, some not immediately obvious.
Personally I will take the same approach to GM food as I do to pesticides, herbicides and inorganic fertilizers. I prefer the taste of natural food.

[Robert_Brenchley]

We already have blight resistant varieties, so why do we need the GM ones when all we have to do is keep working on those?

[g-uk]

The best blight-resistant non-GM varieties unfortunately only die a little slower from blight. We cannot naturally breed resistance faster than the blight organisms can evolve.

GM crops are already globally commonplace. Many countires have embraced them, including Canada, The USA and South Africa.

A good example is corn grown in the USA. Over 80% is GM and there is a hell of lot of corn over there.

Even in the UK there are loads of GM crops being developed, they just are not grown commercially yet.

We can't stop GM crops just like we can't stop nuclear power. It is simply the next step, and will be imposed on us.

People were scared of the motor car and electricity and tried to deny any of it would catch on, but despite the massive pollution and dangers involved, the benefit was too great. It is living in cloud-cuckoo-land to think such an advance will be passed up by our governments. History shows the pattern followed.

How long can it take for GM pollen to fertilise non-GM crops. It won't be long until the GM genetics are mixed in all over the place. We don't have a sealed environment and decontamination zones.

Even some seeds sold as non-GM will be impregnated with some GM DNA.

It's like organic gardening. There is only so much effort worthwhile. Who knows what the last allotment tenant sprayed on their plot, or what is blowing in from golf-courses on the wind.

UK legislation for organic standards is very lax. Even toxic compounds such as bordeaux mix are permitted on organic crops despite being extremely toxic (a good way to poison your friendly worms). Then there is the pollution in the rain, and the chemicals in the tap water (and no you can't just rely on the chlorine evaporating, many chloramines are used and many don't evaporate off, then there is fluoride and various pipe treatment additives).

I'm just being realistic. What most people think is organic is actually not what they expect. Chemicals are still permitted and certain toxicity levels are tollerated.

Has anyone performed a full toxicology analysis on their soil? Extremely expensive.

Then there is the common practice of neighbouring growers spraying non-organic componds which blow on to your crops in the wind?

Do you think your crops are organic if grown next to non-organic chemically-treated crops?

Do you think your crops will be fully non-GM grown next to GM crops?

When your neighbour brings some GM corn seeds into the country and grows them, how will you know, and how will you prevent contamination?

Our farmers are struggling to produce enough food and it won't be long until GM is approved to solve the crisis, but why fear that without any real justification?

[steve1967]

A very interesting and thought provoking post.

You may be right. GM crops will eventually find their way into allotment gardening. I think this is a long way off.

Commercially GM crops will continue to expand in there use as you say to feed an ever growing population but we do still have a choice as to what we eat and sow. Battery hens for instance were needed to provide the eggs we wanted. It changed when people realized the poor conditions these hens were kept in to meet our needs. The conditions improved and the choice from where you obtained your eggs did also.

I made the decision to keep my own hens so I know the eggs I eat are produced in the best conditions for the hen.

I grow all year round on my allotment to provide fruit and veg for my family. Each year I expect to have some failures mainly due to weather. Its something that cant be avoided.  The only pesticide I use are slug pellets which I try to keep to a minimum until plants are strong enough to cope. As you pointed out you don't know what your neighbour may be using chemical wise. We have a small site 26 full size plots we all know one another and try to grow as naturally as possible.

With the way I grow combined with the pleasure I get from it I know that what I eat from my plot will far outweigh anything bought that had been produced commercially.

If we work with nature and bear in mind we are producing on a very small scale. Accept the failures and learn from mistakes. I don't think we will need GM crops any time soon.

[Digeroo]

They might save them. I will be trying to avoid GM as long a possible and my allotment will hopefully help with it.   

I am certainly not going to ruled by the requirement of big business who are doing everything possible to restrict my choices of seeds already.  I believe that this is not about feeding the world it is about big companies maximizing their profits.  I am not going to be dictated to by companies like Dow and Monsanto.  Dow in particular have poisoned my crops yet take very little responsibility for the effects of their dastardly chemicals when they escape.

Weather patterns are very varible at the moment and I do not believe that GM can keep up fast enough. 

A big no to GM from me.

[ancellsfarmer]

One is but what one eats. I have not sought genetic modification in any form and intend to resist henceforth. I consider it imperative that one has the continuing ability to opt out, a basic freedom.

[Digeroo]

I agree about the ability to opt out.  What concerns me is that the people who want GM do not seem to want to respect my choice to reject it.

The argument that it is inevitable really worries me. 

Personally I try and grow as organically as possible and do not find I am overcome by bugs and diseases.   I have not even noticed that various chemicals have been removed from the market.  On the contrary my crops look very healthy.  I did use a few slug pellets the year before last but they are the first for many years.   Every year some crops do better than others and there is no way of knowing which batches they will be. 

[Chrispy]

GM products have to be labels as GM in the UK, which I agree with 100%, but with this and the general anti GM attitude there is not going to be a huge influx of GM products on the supermarket shelves.

Why does no body ever moan about trans-fats, they are a real health problem, widely used and are not clearly labeled, or totally hidden if you ever eat out.

I do think a lot of people really do worry about the wrong things. 

[g-uk]

I agree about trans-fats being bad. The science strongly suports this. Canada and a few other countries have already banned these.

GM crops don't present a known risk directly to our health. Scientists are only adding a couple of specific (and natural) genes to a plant. The don't actually create any new DNA. Like the blight free potatoes they have made simply contain an extra gene from a naturally occuring wild potato. Breeding with the wild potato would not help as the blight organism would evolve faster that we can apply selective breeding.

Really try not to worry, the genes are all natural. They are not making radioactive food or anything scary. Fear of GM is really fear of 'the unknown'.

For those of you who like to be as organic as possible (and most of us do), GM may well (by inserting natural genes), totally elliminate the need for chemicals in gardening. A GM crop is technically organic if no chemicals are used to grow it as all of the DNA is naturally occuring, it has just been mixed, like nature mixes, but not random and very controlled.

GM is not actually as un-natural as people think. Genes mix in nature. They are just being given a helping hand. Just like selctive breeding but faster.

Also did anyone know that there used to be a brand of tomato puree on supermarket shelves in the UK that was GM and clearly labelled so? It was a very good seller.

It was sold for years before GM controls were put in place. After GM controls were put in place and public 'awareness' (or unjustified fear) increased. So it was decided to wait for more worth while GM crops to be designed before investing in approval.

I would love to be able to grow tomatoes without chemicals. Sadly on our allotment, without huge amounts of chemicals the plants consistently die from blight before fruit can ripen. As a result I don't grow tomatoes anymore. I would choose GM over toxic chemicals.

I would also like to add that despite battery eggs farming, being in my opinion an absolute disgrace, they are still a very strong seller. Many people sadly have no care for what they eat at all. Companies also often use battery farmed eggs in food that is pre-made, like mayonnaise, if the ingredients only say 'egg' then it is probably not a free-range egg in there. Then there are restaurants who by loads of battery farmed eggs and don't have to declare this on their menus.

If you want to be sure you only have free-range then shop and Marks and Spencer as I belive they have a free-range only rule on their own-brand products.

Sainsbury's is good too. They have a policy of freedom foods minimum standard for their own brand products. Freedom foods is a very good standard, in fact many animals were found to actually be better looked after under freedom foods standards that under free-range.

I'd love to keep my own chickens but I don't quite have the space at the moment. Bees on the other hand don't need so much. Sadly my colony died over the winter as they lost their queen late in the season and didn't manage to replace her and rebuild in time. I will start again though. Bees are great.

[Robert_Brenchley]

GM is the latest stage in the takeover of the seed supply by big business, which has led to the loss of huge numbers of traditional varieties since the 1970's. I'll never grow them.

[sparrow]

I think GM is often unnatural. The case you are citing of the potato uses genes from another form of potato, fair enough, but that's not the case for everything GM.

I don't want to eat GM stuff, I will choose to not buy it and I will resist it being grown near my stuff. I don't trust agri-business  to sufficiently investigate long-term health impacts or the impacts on neighbouring non-GM crops. Farmers near GM crops have reported massive negative impacts - like the heirloom corn growers in North America.

I'd suggest that your site's issues with disease would mostly be through poor cultivation practices from plotholders. Going GM won't change sloppy gardening.

[Ellen K]

Most GM veg won't have any impact on allotment growers even if we could buy the seed.

What allotment problems will "Roundup Ready" plants or fruit with a longer shelf-life solve?

We already have Sarpo potatoes but they haven't really taken off on allotments, possibly because they aren't very nice!

And would Monsanto and the like want to sell to us?  If you have spent big bucks developing a plant, you want to protect your investment.  I would like to grow Jazz apples but you can't buy a tree for any money - commercial growers only.   Farmers who buy Monsanto's GM seed have to sign a legal document saying they will buy new seed every year,  that isn't going to fly when the seed is out there with hobby gardeners saving, swapping and selling seed.

So sadly no, I don't think GM will save us.  We just have to work harder to grow most things.   Bum.

[martinburo]

To me, the way the GM discussion is dominated by business interests that try to deny the very real problems there are with GM was neatly exemplified by this paper:
http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/07388551.2013.823595?prevSearch=allfield%253A%2528nicolia%2529&searchHistoryKey=
In it, the authors give ample evidence of gene transfer from GM crops to both wild relatives and bacteria, point out that there are numerous ecological, agricultural and economical problems inherent in this gene transfer, yet their abstract claims there are no significant hazards from GM crops.

I am unaware of any evidence that there is any yield benefit from using GM, so no, GM will not feed the world.

By contrast, there is loads of evidence that small biointensive farms produce 3 to 5 times more food per hectare than large agribusinesses do. Since the challenge with feeding a growing population is obviously not with a lack of labour, this yield per hectare is the important metric.

I've seen a documentary where a British farmer went to ask North-American farmers about their experiences with GM crops, and they were overwhelmingly negative because of the stranglehold that large seed companies have on their farms, because of the appearance of resistant weeds, not to mention the legal battles that have been caused because it's impossible for farmers near GM farmers to save their own seed or to grow organic food.

The information that I get is that GM potatoes are less blight resistant than non-GM blight-resistant potatoes.

[InfraDig]

Try:

http://www.ucsusa.org/food_and_agriculture/our-failing-food-system/genetic-engineering/failure-to-yield.html

Failure to Yield from the Union of Concerned Scientists.

[InfraDig]

Here's another interesting site:

http://gmoinside.org/